Pickup gurus...a question

[daz]

I once heard something along the lines that once a new pickup is installed and played that something changes when it is activated electronically that can change the tone of the pickup. thats the GIST of what i recall reading somewhere many years ago. That said, years back i had a fender 57/62 vintage style single i bought new and stuck in my fav strat. I was immediatly thrilled with the tone. I absolutly loved it. I played it for a while and it seemed to change. Next time i picked it up it sounded so lousy i removed it ! I know what you are thinking and yes, i have many times picked up a guitar and loved it and the next day it hjust wasn't the same. same with amps and other things. I contemplated that as the possible reason, but the difference was just much too dramatic. I never had that happen with another pickup since.

So the question of course is, does anyone know of any fact behind what i had read way back then? Could that be what i had experienced with that fender pickup? If so, why not with other's i hve tried?

[Possum]

....

Yes this is true and I haven't yet heard a verifiable scientific explanation of this effect. New pickups need to be played and will "settle in" over time. How they will change isn't predictable, I don't think. I've noticed in working on humbucker prototypes that anytime I replace any of the steel parts I have to play it for about 3 days before it will settle in. It will start off very bright and unyielding, and 3 days later mellows out noticeably. It depends on the part too, some of them never mellow out. I usually tell customers play the pickups for a week, they will change, keep your ears open :-)

[madialex]

But with a fairly good tension and tight wind on the scatter it would seem the settling would be far less as in say a machine wound coil would not settle as much as a hand wind? Just guessing here

[daz]

I can't recall what this article i read said exactly. But i seem to recall it was not about physical changes such as wire changing position or loosening up or whatever. it was something about what happens electronically such as maybe the magnets becoming more or less magnetized or some such thing. I wish i could remember where i read it, but i very vaguely seem to recall it may have been duncan who said it. Maybe....not sure. Anyways, what was so strange about this experience was that it only took about an hour for it to change. I since have wanted to try another one because i absolutely loved the sound at first, but i fear the same thing would happen.

[Possum]

...

It happens most noticably in humbuckers, has nothing to do with wire tension. Everytime I change a metal part in a bucker it takes 3 days to settle in. Single coils change but not as much, probably due to the coils conforming to the shape its wound around, one customer tells me a year later some of my strat pickups still change. Then there's the theory of wire "burn in." Hifi guys have forum wars on that subject....

[Joe Gwinn]

It happens most noticably in humbuckers, has nothing to do with wire tension. Everytime I change a metal part in a bucker it takes 3 days to settle in. Single coils change but not as much, probably due to the coils conforming to the shape its wound around, one customer tells me a year later some of my strat pickups still change.

What comes immediately to mind is the immense pressure on the center of a coil wound with 10,000 turns of wire at some small tension level. If one winds with 20 grams tension, the crushing force is 2(10000)(0.020 kg)= 400 Kg, or 880 pounds. This is more than enough to cause things to creep mechanically, causing distances to change.

Creep usually increases at elevated temperatures, so if the change is a problem, keeping a newly wound pickup warm for a few days should allow it to settle down that much faster.

Creep also varies with the material. Plastics usually have significant creep, but materials like forbon much less so, and metals not at all at temperatures and pressures seen in pickups.

Then there's the theory of wire "burn in." Hifi guys have forum wars on that subject....

I think it's the effect of the drool soaking in.

[David Schwab]

But... even if it had to do with wire tension and all, why would it change only after its been played? I would think sitting on the shelf would give it time to settle.

I've never heard this effect myself. I have heard guitars sound good one day and not another and then good again, but I attribute that to factors other than the guitar. Brand new guitars do sound better after they are played a while though.

[Possum]

....

The coil theory doesn't explain why changing out any metal parts, it takes about 3 days for them to settle in. They start out sounding tight and bright, then over time loosen up. One of my customers bought some vintage PAFs and told the first day he played them they sucked. A week later he said they had opened up and sounded great. Wire burn in? Parts settling mechanically?
I don't know what it is but its real and I've had to make allowances for it almost every day in my bucker testing or it throws me off if I ignore it. Even changing a magnet it happens.....
The wire burn in theory has some validity, do a google search and find the hifi fantatics, there's some engineers there who have plausible explanations. But pay $150 to have your speaker cables "burned in," .....not for me.

[David Schwab]

Well the hi-fi fanatics also swear by removing the shrink wrap off aluminum can capacitors and having $600 wooden knobs and other nonsense! Then they sit there with no real A/B comparisons and say the sound is improved. But only after a several day burn in, which of course means they don't remember what it sounded like the other way!

It's like people who say nitro lacquer sounds better than polyester. Ok, sure. And red cars drive faster!

I do hear the difference between audio cables, but I think a lot of that audiophile stuff is in their mind.

I make direct digital recordings of everything, so I have a real uncolored point of reference.

[JGundry]

Maybe it takes 3 days for the new strings to stabilize and get a little bit of a tarnish going?

[ken]

I think that there may be a definite 'wearing in' period sort of effect in new pickups. If I play freshly finished pickups, they usually seem rather icepicky and sharp toned to me. After a few days, they seen to 'open up' a bit and even mellow out in tone somewhat. Maybe it has something to do with the magnetics or something, but I can hear it too.

Ken

[Possum]

...

You don't have to change strings every time you swap a bucker out, if I did that it would be insanely expensive. Put a capo on the first fret, loosen the strings, slide the pickup out. Replace bucker, tighten strings back up, remove capo.

I"m sorry, a real nitro finish is way better than a poly finish, first of all because its way thinner and not as hard. I know guy who have refinished Gibson Historics with nitro and it opens the acoustic tone of the guitar right up. I believe they do nitro finish them but they use heavy plasticizers in their paint which makes the wood sound like a dead brick. All my cheapo acoustic electrics have a ton of poly finishes on them, if you like trebly tone its fine....

[Joe Gwinn]

But... even if it had to do with wire tension and all, why would it change only after its been played? I would think sitting on the shelf would give it time to settle.

I've never heard this effect myself. I have heard guitars sound good one day and not another and then good again, but I attribute that to factors other than the guitar. Brand new guitars do sound better after they are played a while though.

The effect may be partially psychological.

The usual reaction to the receipt of a new toy is to play with it immediately.

For a real test, we would need two pickups manufactured one immediately after the other on the same machine et al. Install one pickup immediately, the other many months later. Then, try to compare distant memory of tone with current tone.

[David Schwab]

Maybe it takes 3 days for the new strings to stabilize and get a little bit of a tarnish going?

Yeah I was thinking that too. New strings are a lot brighter.

[David Schwab]

I"m sorry, a real nitro finish is way better than a poly finish, first of all because its way thinner and not as hard. I know guy who have refinished Gibson Historics with nitro and it opens the acoustic tone of the guitar right up. I believe they do nitro finish them but they use heavy plasticizers in their paint which makes the wood sound like a dead brick. All my cheapo acoustic electrics have a ton of poly finishes on them, if you like trebly tone its fine....

Nitro is not thinner. It all depends on how much your spray. I used catalyzed nitro on my instruments. It's very hard when cured. Also you are saying nitro is not as hard, so why would they use plasticizers? I've never heard of a plastisizer used with nitro. Nitro is plastic... it's cellulose. Just like cellophane.

For a solid body guitar you are not going to hear any difference between a nitro finish, thin or thick, and a poly finish. You also wont hear any different stripping the guitar to the bare wood (as long as you don't remove wood in the process). I know this from direct experience building instruments. My buddy always uses 2 part urethane finishes, and his guitars sound just like all the Les Pauls he owns.

The idea that the finish is damping the wood is silly because the wood has far more mass. The finish will vibrate along with the body. The other silly things I read all the time is that the wood needs to "breathe" and that poly traps moisture in. The wood doesn't breathe, it's dead, and If nitro lets moisture out, it will also let it in! Finish is suppose to prevent that from happening.

Look at the old Fenders dipped in Fullerplast and then sprayed with nitro (or acrylic) lacquer. You can't get that Fullerplast off the wood. It's as hard as a rock. And those guitars sound just fine.

Eventually air quality laws will mean that every guitar is finished with UV cured poly.