Steel

[orangedrop]

I thought I would do some testing on different steel screws, slugs etc on a couple of PU I have lying around to see if I can hear any difference (I'm also waiting for Dave's new PAF ...).
When checking Mojo supply they have pole pieces of 1022 steel and slugs of 1010. The Keeper bar doesn't have any spec.

Any other source I should try?

Bjorn

[StarryNight]

That's an interesting topic for me as well. I'm about to switch out some different screws and will try to contribute to the thread. I know a lot of guys here have done some extensive research on the subject. It seems to make a significant difference to the overall tonal picture. Does "1022" steel always mean the same alloy recipe? Are vintage screws defined as 1022 or something else?

[orangedrop]

That's an interesting topic for me as well. I'm about to switch out some different screws and will try to contribute to the thread. I know a lot of guys here have done some extensive research on the subject. It seems to make a significant difference to the overall tonal picture. Does "1022" steel always mean the same alloy recipe? Are vintage screws defined as 1022 or something else?

I see you are from Victoria, outside Vancouver - great place! Lovely nature!

Bjorn

[belwar]

I thought I would do some testing on different steel screws, slugs etc on a couple of PU I have lying around to see if I can hear any difference (I'm also waiting for Dave's new PAF ...).
When checking Mojo supply they have pole pieces of 1022 steel and slugs of 1010. The Keeper bar doesn't have any spec.

Any other source I should try?

Bjorn

The 1010 slugs are not 1010. I'll tell you that much. :>

For slugs, go to mcmaster carr and buy every type of 3/16 diameter steel rod you can buy. Then make some slugs from that. They dont need to be pretty for testing so you could probably hack saw them and finish them up with a file.

Screws.. Try Mojo, Try Stew mac (which are metric), Guitar Jones USA, Allparts if they have 5-40.. if not then they are the same as stew mac. You could also try screws from mcmaster carr .. they will probably sound like crap but hey you never know.

Keepers - Stew mac, Mojo & Guitar jones are the same. Again, for testing it doesnt need to be pretty so you buy every grade of steel you can and make some.

I think I learned the most about pickup construction and sound from doing these tests.

[orangedrop]

The 1010 slugs are not 1010. I'll tell you that much. :>

For slugs, go to mcmaster carr and buy every type of 3/16 diameter steel rod you can buy. Then make some slugs from that. They dont need to be pretty for testing so you could probably hack saw them and finish them up with a file.

Screws.. Try Mojo, Try Stew mac (which are metric), Guitar Jones USA, Allparts if they have 5-40.. if not then they are the same as stew mac. You could also try screws from mcmaster carr .. they will probably sound like crap but hey you never know.

Keepers - Stew mac, Mojo & Guitar jones are the same. Again, for testing it doesnt need to be pretty so you buy every grade of steel you can and make some.

I think I learned the most about pickup construction and sound from doing these tests.

Thanks for replying,
So 1010 is not 1010? These numbers don't mean all that much to me.
I read about 1022 and 1018 but 1010 is a new one to me.
I did a search on mcmaster carr - not so easy to find, do you have a link?
I thought that the same type of steel was used throughout - but that does not seem to be the case?

I don't want you guys to give secrets away (NOT true ) but how was PAF:s constructed regarding this matter? Same or different steel slugs/screws/keeper bar?

Bjorn

[defaced]

Those numbers are the AISI designations for steels. The first two digits, 10, mean it's a plain carbon steel, the second two, 20 in the case of 1020 steel, means it has 0.2% carbon.

See this for more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AISI_steel_grades

[StarryNight]

I did a search on mcmaster carr - not so easy to find, do you have a link?


Bjorn

http://www.mcmaster.com/ It's in the very first thread on this forum

Victoria is pretty idyllic. I had to move from Vancouver after 20 years. It was getting too crazy and congested - blah...

[J S Moore]

The 1010 slugs are not 1010. I'll tell you that much. :>

If they're not 1010, what are they?

[orangedrop]

http://www.mcmaster.com/ It's in the very first thread on this forum

Victoria is pretty idyllic. I had to move from Vancouver after 20 years. It was getting too crazy and congested - blah...

"Over 480.000 products"
I found that page but thought it was not right ...

[David Schwab]

"Over 480.000 products"
I found that page but thought it was not right ...

Look for "raw materials" on the lower right of the page, then click on "metals", then scroll down to "steel". There's a listing of all the alloys. Then you can pick the shape, etc.

For screws, look for "Fastening and Sealing" on the front page, also on the right side, above Raw Materials. Then click on "Machine Screws", then "Machine Screws" then find Fillister head, then steel. They don't specify an alloy though. But it looks like they are made from steels such as 1006-C1024 steel, 4.8 steel, and 4140 Alloy steel for the hardened screws.

I haven't tried any of these in humbuckers, but I do have a box of the alan key set screws such as what DiMarzio uses for a project.

It's funny, they show all the head styles and have a "cheese" head!

[belwar]

I don't want you guys to give secrets away (NOT true ) but how was PAF:s constructed regarding this matter? Same or different steel slugs/screws/keeper bar?

Always keep in mind that gibson was very practical. They never used anything "Special", there is no "magic" in the parts. Screws were made with what screws were commonly made with in the 40's. Slugs where made from material that could be lathed with ease in the 50's, and keepers will made from off the shelf steel from the 40's. Some of those materials are not available any more, unless you are ordering 1,000,000 lbs worth and are willing to import from china... but you can get close.

...oh and Im not willing to import that much steel! :>

[belwar]

If they're not 1010, what are they?

They're misadvertised!

[orangedrop]

Good info.

Thanks all!

Bjorn

[David Schwab]

Always keep in mind that gibson was very practical. They never used anything "Special", there is no "magic" in the parts. Screws were made with what screws were commonly made with in the 40's. Slugs where made from material that could be lathed with ease in the 50's, and keepers will made from off the shelf steel from the 40's. Some of those materials are not available any more, unless you are ordering 1,000,000 lbs worth and are willing to import from china... but you can get close.

...oh and Im not willing to import that much steel! :>

I don't think it's changed much either. I see a lot of pickups weekly, and for example DiMarzio uses a number of different screws for pole pieces, mostly cap head alan screws. Except for the machined "fake" studs on their PAF's, it's all standard hardware.

I guess since soft steel machine screws are impractical, most are some kind of harder steel, but still soft enough to machine into a screw.

I think the easiest (or cheapest) way to get the steel you want for pole pieces that might not come in screw form is to not use screws. I have a bunch of cheap Fender humbuckers in my parts box that either have slugs on both coils, or have threaded slugs with screw slots that look like screws.

Except for PAF repros, do we really need to do the one screw, one slug thing? Who actually adjust the screw poles? I stopped doing that after the first couple of years of playing once I realized it doesn't really do anything.

[Electricdaveyboy]

Montreux slugs and screws?

I had got me some 1010 steel for keepers and slugs a year ago and I machine those parts myself.
I saw that Montreux has 1020 slugs and screws listed on his site,what do you think about them.Will they work for PAF´s ?
tx
david