major pickup shootout- send your pups and be heard

[David Schwab]

I think I can honestly say that every sale I have had has been through forums, and the Talk Bass forum in particular. I realize that's a more specialized forum than some, and bass players are into new things, while guitarist are often into vintage style gear.

[Possum]

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Dave, thats a bit scary, your livelihood depends on one forum, what if you get booted? Thats another reason I don't frequent guitar forums much, the "angry" guys who want to pick a fight with you because you have a public face. If you say fire engines are red they'll object and try to start a fight. I've had customers send me threads from the LFP and they have their fights like all the rest. Maybe 4-5 years ago I would go on alot of guitar forums and contribute what I know about pickups, and every time there would be some resident "expert" there who would claim to know about pickups than pickup makers do. I got tired of wasting hours trying to throw in a little education that met heavy resistance.

On the shootout thing, another point to consider is that the entrants are probably just going to be pickup makers that already have on their forum. How are their results going to have much value when there isn't enough representation there of guys doing work like Spence, Keith, Over the Pond guy? Anybody from this forum? They will be missing pickups that relate to Les Pauls that may be way "better" than anything they are testing. A pretty narrow view of things if you ask me....

[David Schwab]

I wouldn't say my livelihood depends on that one forum, just that so far most of my orders have been from people who are forum members there. It's probably not all of them, but a lot of bass players just happen to be a member there.

It's not as closed a forum as some, and has a lot of members.

As I gain a reputation I'll get orders from other places, but right now who knows I exist? That's the thing... I haven't advertised anywhere yet, so it's all been word of mouth.

[Possum]

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Thats a tough one, I'm sure ads on bass magazines aren't cheap. You should do YouTube videos, you got a Mac right? iMovie. CAmcorders are cheap, mine was about $250. Sell a few things on Ebay for the exposure, you take a hit on profits but your work gets seen by alot there, make sure your YouTube video is in the auction. Those both are real cheap but effective mass marketing techniques that work...

[David Schwab]

Thats a tough one, I'm sure ads on bass magazines aren't cheap. You should do YouTube videos, you got a Mac right? iMovie. CAmcorders are cheap, mine was about $250. Sell a few things on Ebay for the exposure, you take a hit on profits but your work gets seen by alot there, make sure your YouTube video is in the auction. Those both are real cheap but effective mass marketing techniques that work...

The small classified style ads in the back of Bass Player aren't too expensive. I plan on doing those in the near future.

Same thing with the videos and stuff. In a pinch I can shoot video with my still camera, but I have a customer with a camcorder setup. He did this video:

Voodoo Amps Marshall JMP-1 mod

(I built the strat he used at the beginning of the clip)

I'm going to set up an ebay store, but they charge a monthly fee, so I was holding off on that for the time being.

But they are all good ideas. I've just been waiting to get some of my production methods worked out.

[RedHouse]

....Talk Bass forum in particular......

Can ya give a link David?

[Dave Kerr]

Can ya give a link David?

I know you meant another David, but here goes:
TalkBass

Some really enthusiastic and talented amateurs there, and some accomplished pros as well. I find myself reading through many of the double bass threads even though I don't now, and likely never will, own one.

[StarryNight]

I've been trying to sort out an arguement against this competition and even feeling a little incensed at the idea that countless hours of research and dollars are going to be scrutinized by a gang of unqualified, hearing-impared wankers. But then I thought - christ, this is the carrot on the stick of capitalism, and we are the donkeys. Excellence through competition is how this economy works. It's not just enough to want to explore how sound is created through inductance and tinker with wire and magnets for the sheer joy of it. We have to compete with each other and best the other guy so to be #1, el primo yadda yadda. I guess its shocking to throw a call out for a competition in a forum where most of us are sharing ideas in a non-competative, democratic way and treating each other as equals in the pursuit of understanding. A forum like this is a refreshing break from the paradoid-inducing competitive nature of running a business, and it seems a call for 'the best' is a little out of place in this arena - as if we live or die by the thumb of Ceasar. If I could quote Shakespeare right now i would, man i tell you what.

[Possum]

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The real competition is out in the marketplace, not in some dumb ass forum shoot out. You "win" everytime you sell a pickup and make some guitar player really happy with his axe. The truth is that probably everyone of us who sells commercially has had a customer tell us that so and so's pickups sucked and ours was way better. Its probably more a case of the right pickup with the right customer than anyone's pickups being "better" than someone else's. There's some customers who will never like your stuff too, and will judge your entire line of pickups by one single pickup they tried and didn't like. Shakespeare said "out damned Spot." I guess he didn't like dogs....

[Possum]

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The real competition is out in the marketplace, not in some dumb ass forum shoot out. You "win" everytime you sell a pickup and make some guitar player really happy with his axe. The truth is that probably everyone of us who sells commercially has had a customer tell us that so and so's pickups sucked and ours was way better. Its probably more a case of the right pickup with the right customer than anyone's pickups being "better" than someone else's. There's some customers who will never like your stuff too, and will judge your entire line of pickups by one single pickup they tried and didn't like. Shakespeare said "out damned Spot." I guess he didn't like dogs....

[Possum]

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Is there an echo in here?

[kevinT]

I re-read the post and quoted it below. Basically they're recording and posting the clips and that's it. No ratings will be given and no opinions from any one particular person about the pickups will be given. They're going to let the listeners make their own decision. ...which is fine with me and that is the way it should be. I originally thought someone was going to pick and choose pickups based on what they liked but this isn't the case apparently. I think it'll be interesting to hear them nonetheless.

Belonging and posting in forums is a great marketing method. Business schools at Colleges and Universities haven't even addressed this new marketing phenomenon. If I were to go back to school to get my graduate degree, I would do my thesis centered on forums and using them as marketing communication vehicles.

I think forums are important in any promotional strategy. The good thing about it is that you can participate as much or as little as you want. And it's FREE exposure to the target market that you want to address. And if you use it effectively, it can generate sales. A sale is a sale wherever it comes from. I have had many sales to folks belonging to forums that have seen my posts and advertisements. There are some forums that are more conducive to sales than others. I think the Les Paul forums, the gear page, and Fender forums are great. However, the smaller forums like Hamer Fan Club and the Dean Guitar's forum for example, aren't really a buying group of people.

There is a lot of psychology going on in forums with regard to the notion of 'group think', particularly when it involves buying someone's product. In many instances, folks buy in to whatever everyone else is doing e.g., 'flavor of the month', or because they wanted to be a part of the family so they announce that they are a new owner of a certain product and thus, "joined the family".

For example, I had a customer tell me that they bought pickups from a maker because they wanted to be involved in all of the camaraderie that was present on the forum which was centered on a particular pickup maker.

But on the other side of the coin, if someone has dominance on the forum, it may be hard to come in and be accepted. In other words, it takes a lot more work to sell your product.

Don't discount forums. They work, it's free, and you can hone your message to a specific group of folks. Soft selling your product in forums should be one of many marketing techniques in your bag of tricks


"I think I explained the shootout earlier in the post. It's pretty simple;

Bridge Pickups only
All in one Les Paul
3 different sounds and 3 amps (Clean, dirty, heavy)
Same player
Same guitar
Same mic
Same pre
Same cable
Same pick

Very simple. As far as criteria, there is none other then pickup type, I will post all the clips and people will dig the pickups they dig depending on the application. Very simple concept. Someone may love one pickup because it sound vintagey and another may love one because it sounds like Slipknot. The reason I'm doing this is because it needs to be done, there's nowhere to hear all these great pickups side by side for real. Company demoes only tell you a little, you really need to hear them side by side.

Please keep in mind I have done many huge gear shootouts as a moderator for gearslutz and also this is costing me thousands of dollars or my own money to do; techs, engineers, down studio time, pickup purchases etc... This is all love folks. This is free for you guys!"

[Possum]

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I hope he can play guitar?

[David Schwab]

Well that's better. So the whole issue was due to the original poster's misrepresentation of the event.

[Possum]

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I think I'd want to hear a representative sample of what they intend to do, unknown player and playing ability, the parameters are real loose, what amp are they using, what wiring harness is in the guitar, what pots what caps, what strings? I'd pass on it....