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Aging a 57 Classic Cover

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Possum View Post
    Basically I don't know crap about how to age nickel plated covers but there are plenty of good close up shots of real PAFs on Ebay...
    It might be just me, because I've certainly had this discussion over at the MIMF forum, but when did not cleaning your guitar and letting it look like crap become vogue? I always figured originally companies like Gibson were trying to either save some money by offering un buffed satin finish guitars, and later factory seconds with scratches... "how are we going to unload this guitar... I know, beat it up more!"

    I have some pretty old guitars and they don't look like these "relics" that makers charge an arm and a leg for! Because they have been cleaned and taken care of.

    I saw a Gibson relic mandolin on the back of a catalog... basically a forgery of an old turn-of-the-century Gibson, and they wanted $14,000 for the damn thing!

    So now new fake "vintage" guitars go for the prices of the real things...

    Crazy if you ask me!

    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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    • #17
      Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
      It might be just me, because I've certainly had this discussion over at the MIMF forum, but when did not cleaning your guitar and letting it look like crap become vogue? I always figured originally companies like Gibson were trying to either save some money by offering un buffed satin finish guitars, and later factory seconds with scratches... "how are we going to unload this guitar... I know, beat it up more!"

      I have some pretty old guitars and they don't look like these "relics" that makers charge an arm and a leg for! Because they have been cleaned and taken care of.

      I saw a Gibson relic mandolin on the back of a catalog... basically a forgery of an old turn-of-the-century Gibson, and they wanted $14,000 for the damn thing!

      So now new fake "vintage" guitars go for the prices of the real things...

      Crazy if you ask me!

      I agree to some extent but it has to be said, instruments do get worn. Some people do abuse their guitars but others do just get worn. Personally, I like shiny guitars even if they are old. I don't have a problem with worn guitar finishes and oxidized covers but if it were mine I'd be tempted to get the polish out.
      The key thing is that some people want a guitar that's been played not some pristine item that's spent it's life stored away. There is a school of thought that suggests those guitars such as the ones in the Chinery collection, are nice to look at but probably not so good sounding. This being the reason they didn't find their way into working player's hands.
      sigpic Dyed in the wool

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Spence View Post
        There is a school of thought that suggests those guitars such as the ones in the Chinery collection, are nice to look at but probably not so good sounding. This being the reason they didn't find their way into working player's hands.
        That's true. Instruments sound better after they are played a while. And they don't have to be all that old either. I can attest to this myself, as the tone of my own basses has changed since the first time I strung them up. They had a tight sound in the beginning, and are now warmer sounding.

        My friend that I used to build guitars with was also a carpenter and did some work to building the Chinery collection is in. Scott Chinery was still alive then. He had a guy who's job it was to look after the guitars... keep new strings on them, and he did actually play them.

        Wish I got to go... but I did get this:
        Attached Files
        It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


        http://coneyislandguitars.com
        www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Possum View Post
          Basically I don't know crap about how to age nickel plated covers but there are plenty of good close up shots of real PAFs on Ebay, just search PAF and highest price to see what those covers look like. I'm attaching one in this message hope it works. One thing you might try too that I know from my jewelry making days is torch heating and pickling. Basically you heat the pickup cover with a torch til you get a low color glow then quench in a pickle pot. You can make pickle easily by using the powdered acid stuff they use to adjust PH in swimming pools, or order pickle from a jewelry supply place like Rio Grande on the net. This will give you an immediate frosted type look and get rid of the polish. You can pickle several times, it might be worth a try. For a pickle pot any regular crockpot turned up all the way will work.
          What is Pickling? Comes in a powder? Add water? Put in a crock pot,full tilt, several times?

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          • #20
            Whatever methods, Nice work! Thanks for shareing Wolf. Looks sweet!

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            • #21
              nightweenie

              You got mail dude, I didn't get any mail from you?
              http://www.SDpickups.com
              Stephens Design Pickups

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              • #22
                Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
                It might be just me, because I've certainly had this discussion over at the MIMF forum, but when did not cleaning your guitar and letting it look like crap become vogue? I always figured originally companies like Gibson were trying to either save some money by offering un buffed satin finish guitars, and later factory seconds with scratches... "how are we going to unload this guitar... I know, beat it up more!"

                I have some pretty old guitars and they don't look like these "relics" that makers charge an arm and a leg for! Because they have been cleaned and taken care of.

                I saw a Gibson relic mandolin on the back of a catalog... basically a forgery of an old turn-of-the-century Gibson, and they wanted $14,000 for the damn thing!

                So now new fake "vintage" guitars go for the prices of the real things...

                Crazy if you ask me!

                I for one love the look of guitars that have been well played. Abused and played are different though. What everybody is shelling out money for are guitars that look like they have been abused. Abusing stuff is easy. Aging it is really hard.

                Here are a couple shots of a guitar I just strung up for the 1st time last night. The chair that the guitar is sitting it is nearly 200 years old and has been very well taken care of. Look at the wear marks on the chare. Where your body rubs against it it’s light and where you don’t touch it is dark. The color doesn’t fade from dark to light, it’s blotchy but gives the impression of a fade. If you can get this look right on a guitar then I think it looks very nice. It looks like the guitar has a story to tell. But I do agree that the abused or “reliced” guitars look awful. I don’t relic them, I just age them. Aging pickup covers adds to the charm the same way.



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                • #23
                  guitar

                  pretty guitar dude....
                  http://www.SDpickups.com
                  Stephens Design Pickups

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by corduroyew View Post
                    I for one love the look of guitars that have been well played. Abused and played are different though. What everybody is shelling out money for are guitars that look like they have been abused. Abusing stuff is easy. Aging it is really hard.
                    I agree with you here. The really silly part is the "signature" guitars with the finish worn in the same spots as the originals....

                    My own guitars do get worn from playing, but I would prefer they stay looking fairly new...

                    Originally posted by corduroyew View Post
                    Here are a couple shots of a guitar I just strung up for the 1st time last night. The chair that the guitar is sitting it is nearly 200 years old and has been very well taken care of. Look at the wear marks on the chare. Where your body rubs against it it’s light and where you don’t touch it is dark. The color doesn’t fade from dark to light, it’s blotchy but gives the impression of a fade. If you can get this look right on a guitar then I think it looks very nice. It looks like the guitar has a story to tell. But I do agree that the abused or “reliced” guitars look awful. I don’t relic them, I just age them. Aging pickup covers adds to the charm the same way.
                    That's a beautiful guitar! My take on this is like this... That's a 200 year old chair, and if it had been made in such a way that the finish would have worn off in a couple of years, it wouldn't have lasted 200!

                    Here's a guitar I made that unfortunately didn't get as many top coats as was planned, due to having to get it ready for the 1995 ASIA Symposium in less than a week. You can clearly see the finish wearing so that the color coats are starting to wear off. So after 11 years, it has a worn look, but how will it look in 40 more years? This is really tough catalyzed lacquer too.

                    You can see a hard edge in the sunburst on the upper part of the body, where your arm rubs on it, and on the back of the neck. Also near the middle pickup.







                    I had a Hayman guitar once that I liked a lot, and when I got it the finish on the body was almost off on parts, and subsequently the wood was falling apart! I don't know what the history of the guitar was, or how it got that way, but it was way beyond having a nice patina!

                    I think we have to remember that the reason you want to put a finish like lacquer on an instrument in the first place is to protect the wood. If the finish is either going to fail, or not offer adiquate protection, what is the guitar going to look like when it's really old?

                    I'm not knocking what you do, we just all have our views.
                    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                    http://coneyislandguitars.com
                    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I've been mailing you Dad!!About some material thinges. I thought you did'nt love me anymore? Thanks for the info too on the covers.......

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                      • #26
                        Absolutly stunning guitar!! I like the chair too!!

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                        • #27
                          Sorry for the delayed response on this thread - I wanted to let the discussion die down before getting back in.

                          And now I am back to simply say thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I'll get to work and we'll see how it turns out.

                          Greg

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
                            If the finish is either going to fail, or not offer adiquate protection, what is the guitar going to look like when it's really old?

                            I'm not knocking what you do, we just all have our views.
                            I dye the wood just like they did 100 years ago, I don't mix dye in the finish so a guitar that looks like this will not wear any faster than a guitar that looks like a new guitar. The finish on this guitar is just as thick as thick as the finish on my guitars that look like new. I add a little dye to all my guitars to soften there look, but every once in a while the guitar needs a little something and you can tell after you put on a base coat of dye. It's all down to the grain. Anyway... Over the years the dye I used will fade but the lacquer will get darker. So slowly the guitar will start to really look like what I tried to make it look like.

                            To bring this back to pickup covers, think about a guitar like this with bright shinny new pickup covers. It wouldn't look right. Now think about the fact that many people that are buying new pickups are putting them on old guitars. Sometimes new pickups on old guitars looks out of place. Sometimes you need a pickup cover that looks old so that it can match the instrument it's on. On the other hand, if your guitar looks brand new, the some pickup covers that look like they have been soaking in sweat and smoke for 50 years wouldn't look right either. The pickups should match the guitar they go on.

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                            • #29
                              Just to clear things up... I think your guitar is gorgeous! I love arch-tops, and I really like the antique look you got. Your tailpiece is very nice too. I couldn't see a shiny humbucker on that guitar... blech! Just like putting a beat-up looking pickup in a new guitar would look kind of dumb.

                              I was really referring to the factory guitars with finish sanded off. As you said, they look abused, not aged.

                              I have a 1936 King Mortone upright bass that sits prominently in my living room, and I just adore the look of the finish.

                              The second bass I built has an antique violin style sunburst finish (not that they 'burst violins..) and I died the wood for that one. I like dyeing the wood... really brings out the grain, as in your guitar's top. I sprayed color coats on top of amber dyed and sealed wood on my guitar, because it was the look I was going for. On my natural finish basses I wipe on some Watco oil before I spray the nitro topcoats to give that warm aged lacquer look.

                              Attached Files
                              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                              http://coneyislandguitars.com
                              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                what about some nice galvanic bath? i do my cover that way... large trafo, (24 volts) a piece of oxidised nichel in the positive end, cover in the other. submerged into a saturated saline solution..

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