Felt

[belwar]

Does anyone have any recommendations for good tensioning felt? What are you all using? Poly blend? 100% wool? Old boot liners? I've been ordering stuff from mcmaster carr - It's 1/8" and white, seems to work ok and fits in an alligator clip well, but man the tension varies with every 1/32" of an inch that I move the wire.

Would love some advise if anyone has any

[David King]

Belwar, I'm having similar troubles with my felt which is just some disks that were supposed to go under a very large strap hanger. They are 5/8" dia and mottled grey/brown felt of some kind. They look big enough to hold up a high-hat but the hole was about 1/8".

Here's a photo of my current tensioner that's been in use for about 2 weeks now. The tension seems about right for 43 but I never seem to have enough for 42.

In case it isn't clear, the wire comes up from below and passes between the 7 polished steel pins before passing through the two felt disks and heading through the guide posts to the bobbin. The wire kept jumping up off the posts until i made a cap which you see in the second photo. The tensioner bar swings from side to side on a pivot at the back.

[Possum]

....

I use some felts from a battery maintenance kit I got at Harbor Freight a long time ago. I use a big bolt and big washers that fit the felts, so I can get any level of tension by turning a wing nut tighter or looser.

[JGundry]

When I use an alligator clip for tensioning I use this clip with shrink tubing over the teeth. Buy a few varieties of felt from the fabric store. Some felt grabs more than others. You have to experiment a little with how the wire and felt is placed in the jaws of the clip. Pretty soon you will get a feel for the proper tension when you draw the wire through the felt.

Alligator clip:

Calterm 2" Alligator Clips 4 Pieces 70302

[Bruce Johnson]

I started out with felt, and it didn't seem to be consistent enough in the drag. My tensioner now uses two pieces of silicone rubber weatherstripping material. It's shaped like a small "P" in cross section, with adhesive on the back. The two opposing pieces are squeezed together with a jacking screw, and the wire runs between them. I haven't tried to accurately measure the tension, but it seems to be very consistent. After more than two years' use, I can't see any significant wear on the silicone.

David, maybe I'm missing something....what's the purpose of the row of steel pins? Are you trying to work harden the wire or something??? Why not put all of the drag on with one squeeze point?

[Possum]

....

The clip idea doesn't work that well, you really need an adjustable tension force, using a wing nut/felt bolt idea there is no problem adjusting for 44 gauge through 38 gauge wire, you easily adjust to have high tension or down to where the weight of the metal washers is all that is putting drag on the wire. I'd go nuts trying to adjust a clip for 44 gauge. You really need to have some finesse over tension, its a fine line between too tight, too loose, and personally I think a constant perfect tension is probably not a good idea, i.e. an Azonic or similar.

The other bad thing about the clip idea is that the magnet wire quickly wears a path through felt so you are starting out with one tension and ending up with a looser tension by the end of the wind. I always have to adjust for felt wear during a wire change, and I check often during a wind to keep tabs. Probably ideally would be a light spring/washer/felt idea, I think this is what Gibson uses on their winders, or maybe its just felt and thumbscrew only, don't remember.

[chevalij]

best I've found is, believe it or not, one of those "super absorbant" rags. The ones they peddle on TV. Soaks up 100 times it's own weight.. yada yada.. It's kind of orangey yellow. I've been using one piece, 2" x 1" folded for over a year. NO wear on it at all. A little dirty maybe....

[J S Moore]

The Sham-WOW? I got some kickass high quality felt from Stew-mac that I use for an assembly mat but I'm going to give it a try when I need to change the felt on my tensioner.

[chevalij]

Hey Jon,

Yeah, that's the stuff! Wears like iron...

[JGundry]

The clip idea doesn't work that well, you really need an adjustable tension force, using a wing nut/felt bolt idea there is no problem adjusting for 44 gauge through 38 gauge wire, you easily adjust to have high tension or down to where the weight of the metal washers is all that is putting drag on the wire. I'd go nuts trying to adjust a clip for 44 gauge. You really need to have some finesse over tension, its a fine line between too tight, too loose, and personally I think a constant perfect tension is probably not a good idea, i.e. an Azonic or similar.

The other bad thing about the clip idea is that the magnet wire quickly wears a path through felt so you are starting out with one tension and ending up with a looser tension by the end of the wind. I always have to adjust for felt wear during a wire change, and I check often during a wind to keep tabs. Probably ideally would be a light spring/washer/felt idea, I think this is what Gibson uses on their winders, or maybe its just felt and thumbscrew only, don't remember.

The trick is to use two felts. One near where the wire de-reels and one near the wire guide. The clip and felt does become a problem with wire much smaller than 42AWG though. But you can still make it work. I check the tension each time I wind a bobbin. You get a feel for the tension pretty quick. I might have to readjust the felt every 15-30 bobbins or so but it only takes a few seconds to do. On the Leesona 102 there is a felt thumb wheel tensioner before the pulley on the overhead tensioner. Then you put the clip and felt right before the wire guide roller. The Leesona 102 is designed to have a thumb wheel adjustable felt right before the wire guide roller. It is missing on my machine as it is on the Leesona 102 Seymour has. The felt and alligator clip is the retrofit that is done to Seymour's machine as well.

The original tension arrangement for this Gibson machine was two felt clips. The thumbscrew felt tension arrangement and traverse guides pictured here were added by Gibson after they moved to Nashville. The original tension set up in the Kalamazoo plant had a felt clip above the spool and one before the wire guide.


Here is a pic of the felt tensioners on my Gibson PAF slug winder. I took this shot when it was still in the old Kalamazoo plant. These felts are the only tension for the wire. I may have to tweak them a couple of times through a spool of wire but there is no problem with it developing a rut in the felt.

[David King]

JGundry
Thanks for all that useful info and the photos.

Bruce, That's a good point about the work hardening and it may explain some of the shorting I've been experiencing. I'll try a second, larger felt clamper at the spool end and see what that does for me. It's essentially what I'm doing now to get enough tension with 42

[Possum]

...

Yeah thats what I do, take the Gibson tensioner flip it vertical and make for only one wire and thats what I do. The battery felts are thick and there's two of them so you sandwich your wire inbetween them, I've been using them for 7 years now. I've also got an extension board that put the tensioner away out maybe 3 feet from the wire guide, thats from the Lollar book. TV Jones uses an Azonic tensioner and bypasses the grams reading indicator spring, I thought of doing that, but when I had one I sent it back. You start making things too perfect the tone starts to get compromised I think.

[David King]

So I got rid of my zigzag steel pins and added a second pair of spring-loaded felt disks to the spool end of my tensioner and now everything is good again.
Much better control of tension, consistent between wire gauges and no more shorting inside the coil layers.

[mickmutante]

Hi David, this is off topic but... How do you attach the pickup base and the pickup to the sewing machine.?
I'm building my coil winder and I have an old sewing machine.

Thanks.

[David King]

Hi Jairo,
I use a plywood disk on the end of the shaft and to the disk I've glued two strips of Forbon side by side exactly 3/16" apart so that my flatwork bobbins with the magnets sticking out slightly can sit flat on the disk with the tops of the magnets stuck into the slot. I use double stick tape to help hold the bobbins in place but the main holding power comes from a strip of masking tape over each end of the bobbins to keep them from flying off.

I need to make a tailstock with a second disk on a bearing that can be quickly brought to bear and then quickly removed after the wind. Since my winder is a sewing machine and not a lathe it's a bit tricky to design this part and so far I've been patient with the tape.

An easy solution would be a simple pin through the center of the pickup and a sliding spring clamp (like an earring) that just holds the pickup on. The problem with this is that some pickups (5 string music man) will have a magnet right at the center.