A different kind of coil winder tensioner

[ken]

Hello all,

I see that there are two main kinds of wire tensioners we are discussing lately, the 'felt' kind and the kind with a dancer arm like on JGundry's Leesona. I have another kind here, and I'm trying to figure out how it works and how to use it.

Some may remember awhile back that I bought two Geo. Stevens coil winding machines to convert into pickup winders. I got four or five of these tensioners when I bought my Stevens winders.

These tensioners mount on a common shaft and sit on a rack made of conduit pipe roughly 18" above where the line of infeed wire spools would be on the winder. You can see these mounted on their rack in the photo below.

I am wondering if anyone has used this type of tensioner before, and if so how to make them work.

Here are some closeup photos of each of the sides of the tensioner too.

Thank you,
ken

[Possum]

...

I think you are missing some parts, the clamp with the 3 screws I think probably had a rod going through it with a pulley on the end...

[Joe Gwinn]

These tensioners mount on a common shaft and sit on a rack made of conduit pipe roughly 18" above where the line of infeed wire spools would be on the winder. You can see these mounted on their rack in the photo below.

I think Possum is right - a dancer arm and pulley originally mounted on the clamp with three screws.

The general principle of operation would be that as the arm moves it tightens or loosens a band brake of some kind, the brake retarding the rotation of a capstan around which the wire is wrapped. The arm is opposed by a spring, and things are arranged such that as the pulley on the end of the arm approaches the bobbin the capstan is permitted to turn more freely, and as the pulley moves away from the bobbin the capstan is not allowed to turn as freely. Typically the arm-opposing spring is pushed or pulled by the tension-adjustment control arm or knob.

One can make a new dancer arm. A thorough cleaning of the assembly may be required as well.

Don't know if this tensioner assembly has the finesse to handle #42 wire, although there is no harm in trying with a fishpole dancer made from a foot of music wire that is thin enough that at the desired tension the dancer wire bends about 2" at the tip. Make a small loop at the end for the #42 wire to pass through. Heat a short length of wire to a red heat and allow to cool in air to soften the music wire enough that it can be bent into a loop.

[JGundry]

If you look at old Geo Stevens catalogs the fine wire machines they made only used felt tensioners. My guess is those may not work with 42awg even if you have all of the parts.

[David Schwab]

Joe, what gauge music wire do you think would work well for a fish pole dancer?

[ken]

I have to apologize to you, I made a mistake when I originally posted the photos.

I have been 'playing' with these tensioners, and if you turn the photos so the thumbscrew and spring assembly is at the top left of the photo and the square section is at the bottom, it all starts to make sense. The tensioner in the photos is complete, and has no missing parts.

According to some research I was doing, these may be for thin wire smaller than 38 gauge or so. I have an old Geo. Stevens catalog somewhere that mentions 'special ordered' tensioners for very fine wire smaller than this. Maybe these are the 'special ordered' parts? Weird to find these on a pinball solenoid winder that only used 28 gauge wire anyway.

The large round center is made of lightweight plastic, probably styrene. It has a round groove cut into its edge, and is supported by the three wheels mounted 120 degrees apart so it rotates around the center axis like a set of planetary gears. All small rotating parts have ball bearings. The two rubber tires at the top right and bottom ride into the round groove in the center. The aluminum wheel at left is grooved for the large round center to ride in. The square area with two screws and a pin is the infeed part of the tensioner, with spacers between for the wire to thread through. The pin in the left has a groove around it for the wire to be fed in.

Wire feed instructions - The wire seems to be fed through the square area, then threaded in a counterclockwise direction in the groove in the round rotating center, between both of the rubber tired pulleys and the round rotating center piece for roughly 270 degrees, and stays in the groove all the way until it reaches the aluminum pulley at left. Then the wire goes 'under' the aluminum pulley, and 'over' the black pulley at far left, and then down to the coil you're winding. The black pulley is on the end of a small spring loaded 'dancer' type arm with a felt pad on it to brake the rotating center, and the thumbscrew adjusts the brakes.

I will add some more photos that show how it all seems to work.

ken

[ken]

Here are new photos that show how this one works.

I used some light green thread in the tensioner so you can see the threading path.

Even unrestored and very dirty, this one is very sensitive to how the wire is feeding and should be easily adjustable to work with 44 gauge or finer wire.

Photos -

TensionerA is the tensioner in its correct position for use and properly threaded.

TensionerB is a closeup of the 'infeed section' of the tensioner from the side so you can see the gaps in this area that the wire runs through and also the groove in the rotating center the rubber O-ring tires roll in. The tires also serve to keep the coil wire in the groove too.

TensionerC is the infeed section showing how the wire is threaded in it, and the CCW direction the wire runs in.

TensionerE shows the 'outfeed' section of the tensioner. The aluminum wheel holds the rotating center in position, and the black pulley is at the end of the 'moving arm'. I'm not sure what the felt pad over the black pulley is for,
but the slot in its bracket seems to be for moving it closer or farther away from the pulley.

With this properly threaded, any pull at all at the string 'coil wire' releases the brake , the rotating center moves, and the 'wire' feeds. Releasing the pull on the 'wire' immediately applies the brakes.

ken

[JGundry]

I'm guessing the wire is meant to make a full loop around the big wheel before it goes on to the smaller pulleys. A full loop around the big wheel allows the wire to get a good even grip on it.

[Possum]

...

These would be perfect for pickups if they are in good shape, because there's no dancer, very cool.....

[Joe Gwinn]

These would be perfect for pickups if they are in good shape, because there's no dancer, very cool.....

There is a dancer, but it's within the mechanism. It's the bright horizontal metal bar with the leftmost pulley (dark plastic) attached to it, and passing behind the middle pulley (bright metal) attached to the frame. The vertical coil spring provides the opposing force and the thumbscrew at the top adjusts winding tension.

[Joe Gwinn]

Joe, what gauge music wire do you think would work well for a fish pole dancer?

Hard to say. Easier to get an assortment and try.

MSC Google Search Results

[ken]

Here is the photo I didn't post in the last posting. This one has the plastic wheel removed showing the dancer arm. Also, the green thread shows the path the wire talkes through the tensioner. I don't know what the felt pad over the black outfeed roller at the far left is for, but it's on a slotted adjustable bracket so it must be important.

I tried to Google search the people who made this tensioner, but no luck. Azonics makes a tensioner somewhat like this one, but higher evolved with a tension gauge on it.

ken

[Possum]

...

Yes but the tensioner gauge on the Azonic is its downfall for pickups, that pulled jerks around like a beheaded chicken when you wind pickups, its great for breaking wire, it only works if you bypass it. Does the dancer on this tensioner jerk like crazy and break wire on pickups? Have you tried it out yet?

[SpareRibs]

tensioner

Here is the photo I didn't post in the last posting. This one has the plastic wheel removed showing the dancer arm. Also, the green thread shows the path the wire talkes through the tensioner. I don't know what the felt pad over the black outfeed roller at the far left is for, but it's on a slotted adjustable bracket so it must be important.

I tried to Google search the people who made this tensioner, but no luck. Azonics makes a tensioner somewhat like this one, but higher evolved with a tension gauge on it.

ken

Well the best part is if all else fails, at least you have a piece of felt