PAF parts

[Dave Kerr]

But downtime wasn't talking spool to spool variances, he was talking about variances within each spool - what's the rationale for using different spools for the coils in each set? DT, do you have any ideas as to how gradually these changes occur within the spool? I'm wondering if there's likely to be much variation within each coil, or if you'll see radically different coils as you work your way through the spool of wire.

[JGundry]

But downtime wasn't talking spool to spool variances, he was talking about variances within each spool - what's the rationale for using different spools for the coils in each set? DT, do you have any ideas as to how gradually these changes occur within the spool? I'm wondering if there's likely to be much variation within each coil, or if you'll see radically different coils as you work your way through the spool of wire.

Yes, there is the internal spool variation and the spool to spool variation. If you machine wind in a controlled environment you will see the variation within the spool and can adjust the turn count to keep the same resistance. I think the difference has to do more with changes in the build thickness within the spool. So you will get changes in capacitance with the same resistance. The changes are usually not major but it's another detail that I think helps add up to PAF tone.

[the great waldo]

Hi POSSUM

This is what I was refering to

I can make you a 16 Ohm pickup that will be so screechingly bright it would shock you. 16 ohms is supposed to be heavy and dark, but if you know how to manipulate coils through many factors that go into a

Cheers

Andrew

By the way this was pasted from your web site

[StarryNight]

My Presciousssss...

I'm kind of getting a "Lord of the Rings" vibe in here. Either those who feel they've got the ring or those who are trying to get it. And the one's that say they don't give a shit but secretly they do. I think everybody here has probably wound a pickup or two they are proud of. I've seen Possum's video in the showcase forum and the A/B with the PAF seems objective and a convincing to me. Sure it is a comparison to a single PAF pickup with it's own unique sound but that's a given, just as no two guitars are alike - there is a definitive PAF sound. There is a definitive Martin D35 sound even though they don't all sound exactly the same. The same goes with amps. When I say '59 bassman you know what i'm referring to even though they don't all sound exactly the same. Sure there are PAFs that sound shitty (or do now) but I don't think anyone is trying to recreate those pickups - wait! I could be on to something...

[David Schwab]

Hi POSSUM

This is what I was refering to

I can make you a 16 Ohm pickup that will be so screechingly bright it would shock you. 16 ohms is supposed to be heavy and dark, but if you know how to manipulate coils through many factors that go into a

You mean 16 K Ohms. A 16 Ohm pickup is like a low z microphone.

Bill Lawrence made very bright pickups with a lot of wire on them.

[shane1b4u]

LOL...Lord Of The Rings 4 sure...

It's fun and interesting to read all your posts here, but bottom line is...good sound, meaning PAF or any other, is an opinion... thats it... My opinion is... as I grew older, I grew to not like most humbuckers tone, as most sound lifeless next to my single coils, and mine are all wrong by all the things I read here.. I use the cheap plastic bobbins (granted I shave and sand each one to dimensions more favorable, I ground the outside lead of the coil, and only copper sheild the top, I finally made a set with alnico, and I run ground wires to each pole, to each their own and we all like what we percieve as good tone.... can't we all just be friends ?

[David Schwab]

can't we all just be friends ?

Of course we can. I don't make anything that remotely resembles a PAF. But there's a lot of talented people here, even if they don't all agree all the time, and you can learn good stuff from all of them.

Possum's point is that the alloy of the metal parts makes a big difference if you want to get close to what Gibson was using back then. And it wasn't by design that they used those parts... just happenstance. He was also trying to say the tone you hear on the famous recordings that people cite as examples of good PAF tone is partly from the players hands, and not just the pickups. I think we can all agree about that.

You can experiment with different alloy screws and keepers and stuff, and they all sound different. I took that idea for my own pickups, and I tried a lot of different alloy steels until I got the tone I wanted for my different pickup models.

In the end, if you make a good sounding pickup, it doesn't matter what you used. There's way too many people using the term "PAF" these days, that it has lost all of its meaning.

[dai h.]

you guys are aware that someone is going to invent a time machine one of these days and all your hard work and this PAF hocus pocus business will come to nothing, right?

[David Schwab]

you guys are aware that someone is going to invent a time machine one of these days and all your hard work and this PAF hocus pocus business will come to nothing, right?

Don't you think the guys here did that already? Possum's looks like a UFO! I haven't seen the rest... but they got them!

That's why I stay out of that field!

[Down Time]

In the end, if you make a good sounding pickup, it doesn't matter what you used. There's way so many people using the term "PAF" these days, that it has lost all of its meaning. David Schwab

I think that sums it up pretty nicely.

[Possum]

...

the varying guage thing I saw wasn't from stretch, or the bobbin would have been really warped, it showed no warp at all. I've done experiments with stretching wire with tension and you can only go so far, the change in diameter was beyond what stretch would account for, this was all on one bobbin. It was kind of shocking to find that as I had assumed there was an ideal guage that was used. I like finding new things like that. It is possible, just maybe, that the vintage wire was more stretchy than modern, but I kinda doubt that one...And I didn't find this on all the coils I've unwound, just a '60.

The 16ohm pickup I have no interest in doing, as David said its in the realm of Bill Lawrence type pickups with really thin wire. The point I was making on my website is you can't tell anything about a pickup just going by DC resistance. 16K can be screechy bright or incredibly nasal and dull sounding. 16K means nothing about what tone is.

Write a book on PAFs, shit no one would buy it! I wrote an article for 20th Century Guitar Magazine last year and only one person contacted me about it, it was a big flop. Your average guitar player doesn't know what a PAF is. I wrote Premier Guitar asking is they'd be interested in an article and a pickup review, they were so interested in the subject they didn't even reply :-)

RedHouse, sorry, so here I am giving away some secrets again, whadda ya want for free.....

[the great waldo]

Hi Possum

I was trying to point out a typo error on your web page (at least I assume it was a typo error)

Cheers

Andrew

[jwendt2003]

Great. Now we have to worry about recreating inconsistant wire AWGs on our spools. Maybe they can fire up those old wire machines from the 50's. That shouldn't cost very much. I wonder if the enamel coating varies. Hey, Seymour Duncan has the original winder from the 50's/60's. That's why their PAFs are exact duplicates. They even have maple spacers. I'm going to offer Brazilian rosewood upgrade spacers on mine for a little deeper tone on the slug side.

[RedHouse]

...Sure there are PAFs that sound shitty (or do now) but I don't think anyone is trying to recreate those pickups - wait! I could be on to something...

That's already being done.

[Possum]

...

I don't think the varying guage thing is all that important overall. After all its all going to even out in the output, sheesh lets not start another bogus PAF myth - about magic varying guaged wire :-) the one I looked at had thinner wire at the start and end and fatter wire in the middle. It would almost be like varying tension in a way, maybe some very subtle effect, its just one of those thing you can't measure or quantify and prove actually does anything. Mostly we're all doing varying tension winds anyway....