PAF parts

[Possum]

.....

[LtKojak]

Oh jeez, here we go again...

LOL!

[RedHouse]

LOL!

Hang-on Lt

I must interject that IMHO Dave's not a bad guy, and though he see's things in a different perspective than me, it's quite fine by me.

Presentation of different views and "disagreement" can be good fodder for dialog, and dialog brings forth ideas, it's not a criticism toward Dave when I disagreee with his opinions. Even if we never agree on anything just the presentation of ideas is a worthwhile exercise as far as I'm concerned and I welcome his presentation of opinions and ideas even though it may seem like I have a counter-point.

We're all peers here and I have just as much right to my opinion as Dave does, no more, no less. Forums ....are a good thing.

I try to imagine us all in a Pub, beers in-hand having heated dialogs and discussion about what we have great passion about, pickups, guitars, wood, amps etc. Members jamming when the time is right, oh yeah what a night!.

If we were all in the same room we could have discussion and agreement/disagreement without malice or grudge.
(hopefully)

[Possum]

.....

Yeah I imagine the same scenario, too bad we live all over the place, David King lives near me but he's into other stuff, SoundmasterG and I are buddies, but he doesn't make pickups and farts everytime he comes over, so I have to put epoxy up my nose in preparation, he really loves hi burritos

Besides I do share tidbits now and then. Will be curious what Frank has to say on the subject. Which brings up a big question if he'll talk about it and thats the pickups in Page's Number One, quoting this post:
"According to MJ, the pickups are exact repros of the sets no.1 and no.2.
The pickups were rated at 8.25k neck and 8.85k bridge, both with balanced coils."

Now this seems odd to me, No. 1 and 2 have the exact same value pickups?, uhuh? the values seem a bit on the high side and lets use Song Remains The Same for sound reference. I have a customer that lives down the street from Jimmy and sees and talks to him at local parties etc. Jimmy told him his pickups were 7.8K bridge and 7.3 neck. this seems more likely to me, having played a set to those exact measurements on real PAFs. The giveaway is the middle position in his tone in that movie is really chirpy, you don't quite that level of chirp from higher wound pickups. Of course he did use his wah as a treble boost alot too, so I could be dead wrong. It sounds like the values quoted are what DUNCAN is winding, not what was actually in those guitars.

[David Schwab]

the values seem a bit on the high side and lets use Song Remains The Same for sound reference.

I agree the values seem high, but is that even a LP on that song? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds more like his Tele or something.

[greenfingers]

Yeah I imagine the same scenario, too bad we live all over the place, David King lives near me but he's into other stuff, SoundmasterG and I are buddies, but he doesn't make pickups and farts everytime he comes over, so I have to put epoxy up my nose in preparation, he really loves hi burritos

Besides I do share tidbits now and then. Will be curious what Frank has to say on the subject. Which brings up a big question if he'll talk about it and thats the pickups in Page's Number One, quoting this post:
"According to MJ, the pickups are exact repros of the sets no.1 and no.2.
The pickups were rated at 8.25k neck and 8.85k bridge, both with balanced coils."

Now this seems odd to me, No. 1 and 2 have the exact same value pickups?, uhuh? the values seem a bit on the high side and lets use Song Remains The Same for sound reference. I have a customer that lives down the street from Jimmy and sees and talks to him at local parties etc. Jimmy told him his pickups were 7.8K bridge and 7.3 neck. this seems more likely to me, having played a set to those exact measurements on real PAFs. The giveaway is the middle position in his tone in that movie is really chirpy, you don't quite that level of chirp from higher wound pickups. Of course he did use his wah as a treble boost alot too, so I could be dead wrong. It sounds like the values quoted are what DUNCAN is winding, not what was actually in those guitars.

Pages current bridge pickup in #1 measures 8.3k, it has a really strong A5 with a 4 wire conductor. The neck pickup is not the original PAF that came with the guitar when he got it from Joe Walsh, Jimmy changed it for a 1960 PAF from another guitar.

Jimmy's #1 Les Paul weighs 7 1/2 lbs.

[jonson]

I dropped a piece of toast last week and it landed butter side up. Took me hours to realise I must have buttered the wrong side. Must be same for keeper. Landed wrong edge.

[LtKojak]

We're all peers here and I have just as much right to my opinion as Dave does, no more, no less. Forums ....are a good thing.

I try to imagine us all in a Pub, beers in-hand having heated dialogs and discussion about what we have great passion about, pickups, guitars, wood, amps etc. Members jamming when the time is right, oh yeah what a night!.

If we were all in the same room we could have discussion and agreement/disagreement without malice or grudge.
(hopefully)

And laughing our asses out!

[Possum]

.....

"Evenly Voiced Harmonics?" Uh huh....

Song Remains the Same MOVIE not the tune. The movie is the classic benchmark for Page's greatest tone. At the other end of the spectrum is the Knebworth concert footage, mediocre tone, Page stoned out of his head on heroin, playing his licks like he was trying to remember how they're played, its embarrasing to watch. The tone is good but uninspiring. He was using his trick switches guitar, I think the added coil tapping and switches sucked some of the life out of that guitar. Back in those days coil tapping was done by running a full extra cable off the pickup, adding more capacitance to the wiring harness.

[RedHouse]

See this is what I'm talking about in relating tone to videos, people see the pictures and asume it's the sound.

Possum I hate to be the bearer of bad news but one can't go by the SRTS movie soundtrack at all.

It has been well documented that the sound track to the movie was heavily edited by Page after the fact. Much of which was re-recorded with new visual clips of the songs done later in a film studio sound stage using their live stage setup and backdrop.

A really good example of this editing can be found listening to Rock-n-Roll where at 3:24:00 into the song you can hear one of those edits take place.

All of the first part of the song Jimmy has a really cool, stinging-hot, sassy sound going on (sounds more like a JCM800 than a Plexi) but then at 3:24:00 you can hear an edit where the guitar track changes to another of who knows when, but it's clearly not a flick of the toggle switch.

A better example of his #1 tone can be found on the "No Quarter" DVD doing Since I've Been Loving You. It's up-close and personal and mostly left intact from post production alteration.

[soundmasterg]

I dropped a piece of toast last week and it landed butter side up. Took me hours to realise I must have buttered the wrong side. Must be same for keeper. Landed wrong edge.

HAHAHAHA.......

[Possum]

....

True the movie was edited, but all the tones in it are just awesome. Particularly amazing is his bridge pickup is so very chirpy. I think maybe the 8 gauge strings had something to do with that. For awhile I thought he must be using a trick switch and bringing the neck's single coil in combo with the bridge but most good info I've read said neither of those guitars had trick switches, and one did it was only a phase switch. I'll try to find that other DVD. The new movie It Might Get Loud I think has some close up personal examples of those guitars being played but who knows whats in them now.....

[David Schwab]

"Evenly Voiced Harmonics?" Uh huh....

Song Remains the Same MOVIE not the tune. The movie is the classic benchmark for Page's greatest tone.

Oh OK. I had realized you might have meant the movie a while after I posted that.

Now one question was if he was using a treble booster of any kind. That was always popular with LP players. Listen to Jan Akkerman on the old Focus albums. He gets a very bright tone from his LP Custom because he's playing through a RangeMaster. Same with the Beano tone, and of course Brain May... but that's not a Les Paul.

Also the 100 Watt Marshalls had that bright input... I think it was channel 1? That channel has almost no low end. Channel two has a lot of low end. A lot of people used to patch them together. So of course it's not always just the pickups you are hearing.

I haven't seen the movie in eons.

[RedHouse]

...I haven't seen the movie in eons....

Don't bother really, back in 76 it was cool but it was so hacked and edited that in these modern days its hardly worth while watching except for nostalgic reasons.

There is way better footage in the Led Zeppelin DVD:


and the No Quarter (aka UnLedded) DVD:


problem with this one is they re-invent a few of their songs which may or may not be welcome if you liked the old versions better. This one has great versions of Rain Song and Since I've Been Loving You . Check out Jimmy's pedal board too I think it's a Pete Cornish job.

[David Schwab]

Don't bother really, back in 76 it was cool but it was so hacked and edited that in these modern days its hardly worth while watching except for nostalgic reasons.

I remember when it was in the theaters. I wasn't a huge Zep fan, so I didn't bother to see it. I do now regret not going with my band mates to see them at the Garden, but, oh well... I was more into bands like Yes and ELP at the time. I saw them a bunch of times. Houses of the Holy is one of my all time favorite albums however..

Yes is actually going to be playing at a new/old venue in town here, the Welmont Theater. Boy to think how cool it would have been to have a place like that walking distance from me when I was younger...

There is way better footage in the Led Zeppelin DVD:

I have this DVD.