Making PAF Slugs?

[JGundry]

Does anyone know what the smallest Brown and Sharpe screw machine model is? I'm thinking Gibson may have had one in their small parts area of the plant.

I have gotten 3 different quotes for slugs and they all have come in double than what I pay for screws. Whenever a shop looks at the bullseye on a PAF slug they say it needs to be done on their old screw machine, usually a Brown and Sharpe. CNC it too clean a cut apparently. The screws are done with a cold heading machine and it runs much faster than a Brown and Sharpe screw machine. So the cost for slugs is higher due to the amount of shop time it takes to make the same number of pieces on a faster machine.

Anyway I saw a manual Brown and Sharpe screw machine, I think it is called an OO model, that was only about 4' by 3'. Really pretty small. I'm thinking I could probably pay for the machine with the first batch of slugs I made on it and just always have it set up for slugs. Anyone have any experience with the smaller Brown and Sharpe screw machines. Models to look for, anything?

[David Schwab]

Why all that trouble for something that doesn't make the pickup sound any better?

Whenever I saw those bullseyes it made me think they were too cheap or lazy to grind the slugs smooth!

But I know... you are doing a replica.

[JGundry]

Why all that trouble for something that doesn't make the pickup sound any better?

Whenever I saw those bullseyes it made me think they were too cheap or lazy to grind the slugs smooth!

But I know... you are doing a replica.

It is for the look only and I need to have the right look. You can get them perfectly smooth with no grinding for dirt cheap. Actually though the steel they used for slugs is meant to be machined. Whether or not that steel works with a cold header I don't know but indirectly the process they were made with did matter tonally.

I think the fact that Gibson did not have them made with a cold header means they either had an in house machine to do them or they just had a really good deal with a local shop that was using a screw machine and did not feel a need for the cost savings of using a cold header.

Either way since I have the space it might be easier and cheaper to keep an old machine set up for slugs than ordering them at twice the cost of screws.

[LtKojak]

Why all that trouble for something that doesn't make the pickup sound any better?

Whenever I saw those bullseyes it made me think they were too cheap or lazy to grind the slugs smooth!

But I know... you are doing a replica.

I kinda like the bullseyes... and I wouldn't rule out so fast the slug's importance in a humbucker p'up... they're at least just as important as the pole screws.

[Bruce Johnson]

I'd have to dig back, but I think that the smallest Brown & Sharpe screw machine is a #0000. If you want to get into more info on them, the best place is the Antique Machinery & History sub-forum of the Practical Machinist forum at: Antique Machinery and History - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web
Search on there and you'll find a bunch of threads about the B & S machines. I'm one of the regulars on that forum.

Yes, you can get an old screw machine for fairly cheap these days, but you probably want to stay away from them unless you're an experienced and well equipped machinist. If you're not familiar with them, the "programming" is done by designing, machining, and hand grinding small rotating cams. It's an old art form, and there are thick books written about setting up B & S screw machines. So, unless you want a big new hobby, I don't think that's the way to go.

Overall, I have to disagree with what your CNC shop said. You could certainly program a CNC lathe to replicate the "bullseye" on the end of the slugs. I guess they just didn't want to bother.

If you want to do it yourself, a simpler and less expensive approach would be to get a small used turret lathe. Old antique turret lathes can be bought for cheap, and would be much less difficult to get set up to make slugs, than would a screw machine. With a turret lathe, you have to stand there and work the handles, but you could easily turn out several hundred slugs per hour. Or, any smaller lathe fitted out with a collet closer and a lever cross slide will work.

So you know, the "bullseye" on the end of the slugs is caused by deflection of the cutoff tool bit, a combination of the bit being a little dull, some wear and slop in the machine, and the action being pushed as too fast. It's a sign of parts being made as cheaply as possible. On a CNC machine, all you need to do is program in a fast feed in, combined with a tiny bit of longitudinal feed. On the turret lathe, just use a narrow cutoff blade and push the lever hard. It's easy; I've done it many times!

[David Schwab]

and I wouldn't rule out so fast the slug's importance in a humbucker p'up...

I agree, but I meant the bulls-eye, not the slug.

[JGundry]

Bruce,

Thanks for the info. Even the CNC places wanted to charge about the same as if they used a screw machine. I went ahead and bit the bullet and gave a deposit to a local machine shop that has an old Brown and Sharpe screw machine. It is a family owned shop that has been there since 1950. They specialized in high tolerance parts run a very clean and tight ship so I feel pretty confident that I will get exactly what I want.. They are only about 10 minutes from my office so I can easily run over there to approve the slugs when the machine is set up.

[Possum]

....

The CNC guys don't like to cut rod stock, they want everything on coils. I ran into the same thing, you can't get them made as cheap as screws. I've just gotten used to making my own, I've gotten pretty quick at doing them and since they are going in a high ticket item its not like I need many of them anyway....

[Possum]

....

The bull's eye pattern is a natural by product of how they are cut, being on a "turning" machine instead of a saw....probably the difficult part is to not get a nub sticking out when you cut them off, I've managed to figure how how to do them on a lathe quickly and identically to the old PAF slugs.

[JGundry]

The bull's eye pattern is a natural by product of how they are cut, being on a "turning" machine instead of a saw....probably the difficult part is to not get a nub sticking out when you cut them off, I've managed to figure how how to do them on a lathe quickly and identically to the old PAF slugs.

The way the the saw works I believe is the rods rotate while the saw goes through the rods. You still get a bull's eye pattern but evidently it has a little different look than if they are made on an old screw machine.

I thought about getting a lathe but I think it would suck up too much time to make them that way. A screw machine set up to do just slugs would seem like a good option if you could get it cheap and if you could set it up.

[jonson]

The ultimate way to do slugs (non cnc) is one of these. You can still pick them up for £600 or so pounds in the uk and there has to be USA equivelant or even a secondhand one over there.
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Iv'e spent a lot of hours on this machine and its an auto feed to stop, and one lever cutoff and face for next slug. Bullseyes are a sinch.

[David King]

jonson,
What an extraordinary machine, I had no idea such a thing existed. I doubt there would be many of them in the states but I'll have to start looking now.

[kevinT]

The ultimate way to do slugs (non cnc) is one of these. You can still pick them up for £600 or so pounds in the uk and there has to be USA equivelant or even a secondhand one over there.
Page Title
Iv'e spent a lot of hours on this machine and its an auto feed to stop, and one lever cutoff and face for next slug. Bullseyes are a sinch.

That is a killer machine....love it.

Allparts has the smooth surface slugs the last time that I bought them. I think the smooth ones look cheap....and make humbuckers appear cheap like some of the pickups that I've seen from asia...IMO of course.

[jonson]

Just to give you a rough idea if you did come across one. I had to run 1000 brass bottlenecks for an english magazine give away about 15 years ago and starting with thick wall brass tubing in 3metre lengths and a part off tool I made with a double radius to round off the back edge and set up the start to the next one plus deburing the front only. 2 eight hour days job done. Never bothered to do slugs as no need at the time but it would knock them out fast.

[Possum]

...

I think the idea of buying an old screw machine would turn into a nightmare scenario. I can't prove it but I think the bevels may have been done by hand and not machine, if so they wouldn't be anymore fast than just buying a cheap lathe....