Differences between Ceramic Magnets? US vs UK

[belwar]

Im looking to learn a few thigns from this thread.. To sum it up, here are my questions.

1 - Where in the UK can you buy ceramic magnets?
2 - What are the common types of ceramic available in the UK
3 - What were the common types available in the UK during the 1980's?

I've never worked with ceramic before, and would love to learn about the differences between them. Allstar was adamant that there was little difference between C5 and C8, but I find it hard to believe.. Like everything in a pickup im sure it sounds totally different.

Im working with another forum member about recreating a pickup made in the UK with ceramic magnets (They are free to discuss it, but I dont want to talk about them without thier permission) and I have no idea which ceramic was used.. I have one of the magnets in my posession, but no way to tell WHICH type of ceramic magnet it is! I'm also looking to find some suppliers in the UK to see if I can trace the original source.

Also, what are some of the tonal differences between the difference ceramics?

bel

[David Schwab]

Allstar was adamant that there was little difference between C5 and C8, but I find it hard to believe.. Like everything in a pickup im sure it sounds totally different.

I only had one dealing with Allstar when I first started on a pickup design. I think the guy's name was Rob? He basically said the same thing... I said C5, and he interrupted me and said C8 ... they seem to have different enough specs though.

I switched gears and didn't end up buying any magnets from them, though I thought he was very helpful.

Im working with another forum member about recreating a pickup made in the UK with ceramic magnets (They are free to discuss it, but I dont want to talk about them without thier permission) and I have no idea which ceramic was used.. I have one of the magnets in my posession, but no way to tell WHICH type of ceramic magnet it is! I'm also looking to find some suppliers in the UK to see if I can trace the original source.

Also, what are some of the tonal differences between the difference ceramics?

That would be me, of course. Those are odd sized magnets for sure. I found one place that listed that size... I'll have to look for the URL.

I think you can tell if it's C5 or C8 by reading the strength of the magnet, but I'm just guessing.

To be honest, back when I was using a lot of ceramic magnets, I'm not even sure what I was using, but I think they were C5. My point is I wonder what most of the pickup companies use?

I would tend to want to go with C8. Stronger is better in this application (bass pickups) IMHO.

Boy, that was vague, huh? lol

Any of the UK gents know who supplies magnets there?

[David King]

I have some C-8 from sensmag .210 x .250 x 3.1" and they are way powerful but the pickups I've made from the so far have all stunk. They are very loud and efficient but the tone is dismal compared to A-5.

My impression is that C-5 is getting difficult to find. For industrial uses it's been completely supplanted by C-8

Ken Smith basses come with decent sounding pickups from Kent Armstrong that use ceramics. The best sounding pickups I've ever heard, hands down, were Mørch humbucker pickups that used ceramics. Mørch stopped making those pickups in about 1988 when the ceramic mag source dried up. He tried every other magnet he could find and nothing came close. I don't think he has made a ceramic pickup since. Could it be that Wal was using the same mags?

Maybe we can track down the LanePoor ceramic source. It wouldn't surprise me if Lane and Armstrong shared the same mags.

[belwar]

Everything I've seen so far about wal's scream "Do it yourself". The bridge, the pre-amp, the pickups. The only thing purchased was the tuners. They went to alot of work regarding propriety parts.. In the 1980's when those basses were first made, the internet didnt exist (in the form we know at least) and it would have been harder to find foreign magnet sources. My best guess is that they use(d) a domestic source for ceramic. reading through several UK companies i've seen that C1, C2, C5, C8, ad C8S seem to be made in both isotropic and ansitropic.

[LtKojak]

The best sounding pickups I've ever heard, hands down, were Mørch humbucker pickups that used ceramics. Mørch stopped making those pickups in about 1988 when the ceramic mag source dried up. He tried every other magnet he could find and nothing came close. I don't think he has made a ceramic pickup since. Could it be that Wal was using the same mags?.

Mørch? Man, haven't I heard that name in ages! One of the best luthiers in Denmark, where I've used to live.

Unfortunately, I've never had the pleasure to meet him personally...

[Sam Lee Guy]

This honorabre company suppry ceramic magnet in past to Burns and Kent Armstrong before move to plesant shop in 70's. Ceramic 5 simirar strength to anisotropic A5 (Alcamax) but blighter sound.
Ceramic 8 stronger like super distortion.

Magnets - Cermag Magnetics Home

This company also suppry magnet to guitar maker

http://www.eclipse-magnetics.co.uk/

[jonson]

Hi Sam how you doin cookie, Must talk one eve.
Gotta be Wal and I for one miss Ian as I had a jar with him no more than 12hours before he passed away. I would have said give Pete the fish a call as he is still about, but he has been working with Paul Herman, and those Basses are coming back on the market. As you said Sam Cermag, and very probably Enfield winding wire or Barnapers for the coils

[Sam Lee Guy]

Ah ! Herro Johnson!
Yes Ian Wal! Velly good people, velly oliginal thinking. Sam Think if Ian here now he no use ceramic, but use velly small noodledymium magnet instead!

[David King]

Try the flash games at the cermag site. The music is awesome.

Cermag's online store has some C1 and C5 discs for sale on their online store but the blocks are all C8.

BTW, Did Wal use bars or individual discs under each coil?

[belwar]

but use velly small noodledymium magnet instead!

I hereby proclaim that all mention of the word neodymium here be replaced with NOODLEdymium. Best. Name. Ever.

[jonson]

Ahhhh! Velly small noodledymium nearry kill me once Sam. Wore as braceret round rist and heart went out of kilter and I fell over.
Sad as have only one good pic I took of Ian Waller that same evening at the BMFAIR with Alan Penny from Rotosound, but!!! my second wife is in it and that puts the kybosh on it for me. Have to photoshop her out.

[jonson]

Sorry David nearly forgot. 2 coils per part, wound different directions and individual magnets not bars. a 2 pickup assy gave 4 pickups per string.

[David Schwab]

BTW, Did Wal use bars or individual discs under each coil?

It's like a regular humbucker, but with individual coils per string. Coils are wound the same way, one row is North, and the other is South. On this particular specimen the rows were connected in series. Newer pickups run each string pair out and then connect them at the preamp.

I think I've posted this before:

[jonson]

That's different to the early one I had which was all individual. Still typical Brit before the net,, you went with what you could get rather than the cost of importing.

[David Schwab]

It's a very nicely made pickup. Everything is custom made, right down to the pole piece screws. The magnets are a very odd dimension.

I have only been able to find one place that stocks something similar.