SmCo, NdFeB and different steel alloys as polepieces

[Artur pickupmaker]

Any one there has tried to use SmCo and NdFeB in pickups?
I know there are too strong magnets but think it's possible to degauss it or put them farther from the strings... I mean, if results in good tone.

And different steel alloys as slugs? I think it must have different tone qualities and sould be tested, any one has experimented it? Like chrome/vanadium steel or cobalt steel. I found chrome/vanadium steel became a magnet if magnetized (don't know if keep magnetized for a long time) and it's corrosion resistent.

[David Schwab]

I use NdFeB in bass pickups. You cannot degauss it. But I haven't had any issues with them being too strong. They probably would be if you used neo rod magnets or something.

I'm just getting around to trying them in guitar pickups.

The key is finding the right size magnets, and designing the magnetic circuit around them.

I use a few different alloy steels, for different tonal qualities.

[StarryNight]

I've used tiny NdFeB mags for an acoustic guitar pickup. Turned out pretty good all things considered.

[Stealth]

I use NdFeB in bass pickups. You cannot degauss it. But I haven't had any issues with them being too strong. They probably would be if you used neo rod magnets or something.

Would using a lower magnet grade help? I.e. using N35 magnets instead of N42s which are more common? Or using hollow cylinder magnets instead of giant poles?

[David Schwab]

Would using a lower magnet grade help? I.e. using N35 magnets instead of N42s which are more common? Or using hollow cylinder magnets instead of giant poles?

You are just going to have to try it and see. I haven't worked with neo rods at all.

You can also uses shorter neo rods and supplement that with steel rods.

[Artur pickupmaker]

"[...]But I haven't had any issues with them being too strong. They probably would be if you used neo rod magnets or something.

[...]

I use a few different alloy steels, for different tonal qualities."

-I put some NdFeB small rods in Strat single coil and the strings get wraped with the magnetic strenght. If even AlNiCo 5 rods causes it in neck pickups, NdFeB causes even more string wrapping.
I think small rods wouldl pull less the strings than a magnet bar, the bigger the magnet piece the stronger it is.

Could you or someone else talk about the different tonal qualities of different steel alloys?

[David King]

What steels are available to you? That's probably the place to start.
I've only been able to find mild steels in 1018 and 1008. Other than that you have all sorts of tool steels like O1, A2 etc. I did get some malleable iron rivets which should have almost no carbon content but I couldn't really hear any difference between them with C8 mags. Maybe with A5 I'd hear something but I was trying to make a J pickup which won't hold an alnico bar magnet.

[David Schwab]

I've only been able to find mild steels in 1018 and 1008. Other than that you have all sorts of tool steels like O1, A2 etc.

Do you mean in rod form? McMaster has all kinds of steel.

I've used 01 steel in some pickups. It was hard to make a direct comparison to other steels I was using because the blades were also much thicker, but it sounded fine. Might be a bit brighter than stuff like 1018.

[soundmasterg]

Among others, Rickenbacker has used Samarium Cobalt in pickups, specifically in their HB1 and HB2 humbuckers. They are powerful and sound good, though to my ears, they can be a little harsh on the high end in some circumstances. I use flatwound strings to alleviate this problem on my RIC 230 with HB2 humbuckers in it.

Greg

[Stealth]

You are just going to have to try it and see. I haven't worked with neo rods at all.

You can also uses shorter neo rods and supplement that with steel rods.

Hm. There's a novel idea - that one didn't occur to me at all. In theory, bass strings shouldn't be as affected because they're significantly thicker, but no sense in risking it. Next week's shopping week, I'm going after that 7 lb. spool of 42 AWG, the FR4 and the N35 rods so hopefully we'll soon know the effect.

[David Schwab]

Among others, Rickenbacker has used Samarium Cobalt in pickups, specifically in their HB1 and HB2 humbuckers. They are powerful and sound good, though to my ears, they can be a little harsh on the high end in some circumstances. I use flatwound strings to alleviate this problem on my RIC 230 with HB2 humbuckers in it.

Greg

I'm sure the 44 AWG wire isn't helping! When they first did those pickups they were very dark sounding. GuitarPlayer reviewed one of those bolt on neck basses they had and said the pickup was "weird" and dark sounding. So instead of winding less wire they probably went with the stronger SmCo magnets.

Fender has the Lawrence designed Samarium Cobalt stacked pickups. He uses keeper bars (he calls them moderator bars) between the magnets and the steep poles. That was probably so he could use smaller magnets.