61 PAF w/ steel bobbin screws

[Bill M]

Ok.... I didn't have to rewind the PAF. The screw bobbin ground to the plate corroded and had broken off. Possum, I wasn't too invasive to this pickup, but it appears to have a plastic bobbin, no numbers on it such as yours, and the keeper is only top milled. The dc resistance on this one is 7.85 k.

[Bill M]

Here's a picture of the bobbins. Not quite sure if its plastic.

[Possum]

....

Oh darn....say why did you spit all over the screw side
No its not similar to the oddball one I posted, there are dimples in the top of yours which is correct, its probably butyrate (yours), really can only tell by smelling it. Glad you didn't have to rewind.

[Possum]

...

One thing I do notice that is unusual is on the left end of the bottom bobbin there is an injection mold vent looks like, thats a new one on me...

[Bill M]

I noticed that mark on the left side of the slug bobbin. Huh, the screw bobbin does not have it.
This was another great sounding PAF. It doesn't seem to matter if its an sg style or les paul style guitar, paf's have a character all their own. I've had 2 gold tops a black beauty and this is the 3rd 61 i've had through here and all of these guitars share a certain character in tone that I cann't quite explain. Its almost like a breathing quality.

[Possum]

....

Yeah, alot of people just don't get it. I've managed to capture most of it, go into the showcase and watch the video a customer of mine did. He really didn't focus on the tones they can get, more of a clinical comparison at low volume but thats where you hear the differences best. There are reasons why they sound that way and its a complex relationship of metals, magnet and wire that is very fragile and hard to get. Worth the effort thought.....

[LtKojak]

What I thought was possibly a '61 PAF turns out to be a mystery pickup. I talked to Tom Holmes who's never seen one like it, Lollar doesn't recognize it, anyone here see one like this?

I don't recognize it either, but every part seems to be of good quality... how does it sound?

[Possum]

....

Exactly like a PAF. The bobbins are the right height, the magnet wire is from the 60's, same maroon/red type you see all through that period and earlier, slugs are the exact spec of PAFs, screws have the big heads, the narrowing of the ends is wrong and more like mid-60's, there are no "L" tool marks on the feet, I've read that they disappeared briefly in the mid-late 60's on Gibson stuff, but I've never seen it. Might have been a prototype but I seriously doubt. Maybe an attempt at a forgery? It really is a puzzle, may have nothing to do with Gibson at all, I just don't know, Holmes doesn't know, Lollar doesn't know.....

[SJE]

Just coming back to the original topic of steel screws I discovered today that Bare Knuckle Pickups use steel screws - which kind of surprised me considered they do kind of preach on using traditional components etc. Either way I guess it proves you don't need brass or none magnetic screws to get a good sound!

[David Schwab]

Maybe an attempt at a forgery?

Dave, the more I looked at those photos, the more those mold marks between the poles looked familiar.

Those are Shaw bobbins. I went back to the photos I took that time when I rewound one for my friend. It was dated 1981.

Obviously the other parts on yours are not. The Shaw baseplates have the patent number stamped on them, and have the date inked. The Shaw keeper looked stamped. The magnet is sand cast.

So it would appear someone made that from several pickups.

Here's a close up of the bottom of the screw coil I took at the time. The stud has the same mold marks.

[Possum]

....

You might be getting close to something. The cut offs though from the vents look very different than the Shaws, plus those numbers are marked in the injection mold and don't show on the Shaws, but other things are very close. the bobbin flanges are very similar with parting lines in the middles. Yeah it may have been cobbled together. Weren't there PAF stickered Gibson pickups right prior to Shaw's versions?

[David Schwab]

Oh yeah, I forgot the numbers etched on the molds. Hmmmm.

I seem to remember that Shaw had reworked what ever existing molds they had at the time? Maybe that was some intermediate pickup?

I'm no Gibson expert, but I think it was the T tops before the Shaws?

Very strange.

[voodoochild]

Just coming back to the original topic of steel screws I discovered today that Bare Knuckle Pickups use steel screws - which kind of surprised me considered they do kind of preach on using traditional components etc. Either way I guess it proves you don't need brass or none magnetic screws to get a good sound!

But he is using traditional components. No one PAF represents all PAFs. Magnets, screws, wire, etc varied drastically from what I have seen. The good thing is that anyone making a PAF copy can do so much more consistently given today's manufacturing methods.

[JGundry]

Holmes has an old Gibson mold that makes bobbins that look like Shaw bobbins. Holmes does not use this mold anymore. The mold has been reworked but I'm pretty sure it is one of the Shaw bobbin molds. If Holmes does not recognize it as a Shaw I don't think it is.

Personally I don't think that is a Gibson product. The ground to the lower corner makes me think Seymour Duncan. I have not seen any Duncan's like that. But I wonder if he had more than one go at making a bobbin mold and this is the first try at it. I never took apart a Fralin but doesn't he have his own bobbins and baseplates made?

Have you unwound it to get the TPL count? Do you have a photo that shows the back of the baseplate and shows the hole for the braided wire? The brass screws look wrong for any golden era Gibson pickup. Does the tapered end of the screw have a notch in it?

[Possum]

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Holmes told me he has the later molds, he altered them, the Shaw bobbins look alot like this pickup, the TTops were very different. He also told me that his pickup is no way a PAF repro and I probably know that anyway, which I do, having dissected and analyzed the metals.

The wiring is common for later Gibson products, I have early TTops wired like PAFs and latter ones wired with the ground at the opposite end of the plate. The hand made numbering to me says "prototype." I can't take the bobbins apart, there's nothing wrong with it, the magnet wire looks identical all the PAF era wire, the braided wire is 2 strand. The screws aren't thread cutters, I've never seen screws like those anywhere, I love the big heads and the flatness of the tops. I've never seen a Fralin so I can't comment on that, they sound really off the mark to me so not worth buying one to examine. Does anyone have a Fraloidbucker to check?