Toaster Bobbins.

[Possum]

...

So where does Rickenbacker get their magnets from then if its all supposedly American made? The wood is all American? We have rosewood here?
I thought it was extremely weird they don't make an accurate horshoe pickup yet won't anyone else do them correctly, like Lollar did. The fact they can't keep up with demand isn't exactly a good sign IMHO. You gotta respect their protecting their brand though, and just maybe they WANT to stay small, I do too :-)

So they don't ever come up with new products? That is stagnation to me, it would be like G&L never making anything new after Leo died, who would want to work at a place just making the same old stuff over and over? I always have new ideas for additional products, it would be real boring to just make only a few things all the time.... Being just a one trick pony company seems real dangerous to me, what if suddenly no one wants Rickenbacker vintage type guitars anymore, goodbye company. But, I guess they have the Beatles thing that probably drives their sales, thing is though I bet they are mostly selling to baby boomers and we're getting OLD, you just don't see kid bands banging on Ricky guitars, so once our generation starts hitting the rocking chairs, Rickenbacker will probably become the new Epiphone with headquarters in Beijin....

[Possum]

....

This kind of brings up another point, how does TV Jones get away with making Filterton pickups? You can't buy those parts anywhere either, I would love to make those things myself. He's really nailed that niche and done it really well, but how? Gretsch doesn't protect those products?

[David Schwab]

This kind of brings up another point, how does TV Jones get away with making Filterton pickups? You can't buy those parts anywhere either, I would love to make those things myself. He's really nailed that niche and done it really well, but how? Gretsch doesn't protect those products?

The patent is expired, and I think he was making their pickups for a while too.

Rick has a trade mark on the look of the toaster.

[soundmasterg]

[quote=Artur pickupmaker;125348]

They absolutely REFUSE to have ANYTHING made in China or anywhere else but the USA [...]



This is a disagreement point. Why to buy everything from the USA? I think the north americans are rich and devloped enough, as a brazilian I think you should buy brazilian products to give more employ and devlopment to my country. Distribute devlopment is better than concentrate it in a latter analysis.

I know the americans will hate this I said but I had to say it.

The problem with everyone buying things from overseas instead of making it and buying it here in the US is that the manufacturing base in the US goes away, which means the good paying, middle class jobs go away, which means the economy tanks because no one has any money to buy things, which means those overseas factories have economic problems because they can't sell anything, which means they lay off their workers...etc. Its already happening as you can see with the worldwide economic problems. Besides, why should the US citizens who have worked so hard over the years to build our country up, fought and helped win two world wars, used the Marshall plan to rebuild half of Europe and Japan, why should we subsidize other countries of the world so they can get more money, and then when we need help, they call us names and thumb their noses at us? Why don't they work hard and use some smarts and build their countries to be economic powerhouses too? We did it...so can you.

Its a great idea if products are built and sold all over the world, but in practice it means that the wealthier countries who send their jobs overseas end up losing out economically for generations until the pay overseas rises to a level playing field. Meanwhile here in the US the pay has been stagnant for 30 years and even gone down in many cases, and people can't get by because the prices keep going up. I've been laid off 3 times in the last 10 years. Its really hard to get ahead when that happens.....

I think a lot of people overseas see how much an American worker makes in a year and they assume its a huge amount of money....and it is to them when you imagine how far $30,000 a year can get you in your country. Unfortunately that $30,000 has to be spent here in the US where things are much more expensive than overseas in many cases. So that $30,000 doesn't go as far as you think. Granted we are still a wealthy country as compared to many others, but the way things are going it won't be that way forever.

Just playing the devils advocate

Greg

[soundmasterg]

So where does Rickenbacker get their magnets from then if its all supposedly American made? The wood is all American? We have rosewood here?
I thought it was extremely weird they don't make an accurate horshoe pickup yet won't anyone else do them correctly, like Lollar did. The fact they can't keep up with demand isn't exactly a good sign IMHO. You gotta respect their protecting their brand though, and just maybe they WANT to stay small, I do too :-)

So they don't ever come up with new products? That is stagnation to me, it would be like G&L never making anything new after Leo died, who would want to work at a place just making the same old stuff over and over? I always have new ideas for additional products, it would be real boring to just make only a few things all the time.... Being just a one trick pony company seems real dangerous to me, what if suddenly no one wants Rickenbacker vintage type guitars anymore, goodbye company. But, I guess they have the Beatles thing that probably drives their sales, thing is though I bet they are mostly selling to baby boomers and we're getting OLD, you just don't see kid bands banging on Ricky guitars, so once our generation starts hitting the rocking chairs, Rickenbacker will probably become the new Epiphone with headquarters in Beijin....

Well Rickenbacker uses Schaller tuners (from Germany) wood from overseas and the US, they make their hardware themselves, and use CNC plans that were put in the computers directly from the original jigs when they made many of these vintage instruments the first time. So they "reissues" are more accurate than just about anyone else's, unless they chose to change something, like changing the truss rod design no the newer basses for strength for example. RIC gets more of the sales from the vintage nostalgia type market, true, but there are a lot of bands these days that still use RICs...many alternative especially. They have established their niche in the marketplace where they are a 3rd or 4th option for people who want to try something different than a Fender, Gibson, or Gretsch, and that is where they try to stay. They do come out with new products from time to time, or custom colors, etc., and these things do drive their sales forward. They also limit custom colors and things of that nature so the pricing for the owners of these instruments tends to hold steady and go up a lot better than the mass market ones like Fender and Gibson that churn our thousands of the same thing every year.

As far as the horseshoe......they ended up getting it trademarked after they saw Lollar's I believe, and they trademarked the look of it I think. And I think that the look cannot be trademarked when it is a part of the functional aspect of the pickup, but I'm not sure on that either. I've heard that if people would like to make the real horseshoes that they could break that trademark quite easily, but thats all I'm going to say about that. There were problems with the original horseshoes that made it hard to make....the magnets were cobalt steel and would lose their magnatism over time, and the shoes have to be recharged about every year. I guess Paul McCartney's 1964 4001 bass had a dead horseshoe pickup in the mid 70's when he brought it to RIC to get some work done, and they couldn't recharge the cobalt magnets and didn't make them anymore so they had to give him one of the more modern bridge pickups instead, which still sounded good but different. I'm not sure if Lollar solved any of those issues with his design or not, but whenever I get my other bass done I'll be trying it out since I have one.

Greg

[soundmasterg]

The toasters have molded plastic bobbins, and the open faced high gain pickups use printed circuit board.

They're all molded now from what I've seen. Its some type of nylonish material...pretty soft. Maybe its bakelite? I don't know. The toasters and high gains use the same basic bobbin with holes drilled in one for the toaster magnets, and they're mounted flush to the underside of the top bobbin, and the hi gains have the same bobbins drilled for a different size to fit the pole-pieces.

The humbuckers are epoxied and have a pair of narrow white nylon bobbins with a thick samarium cobalt magnet underneath. They also have a circuit board of sorts with the leads soldered in at the end. The early ones could get damaged or broken easily like mine did, and the later ones they carried the epoxy right up to the bottom of the board so the wires are more secure.

The newest high gain pickups have a little less winds of 44 gauge and use adjustable pole-pieces and are supposed to be chimier sounding than the older style button tops, but I haven't seen or heard them yet myself.

The new toasters are pretty close to the vintage ones with the longer magnets and the lower winds. They use A5 magnets and I think some of the older ones used other types and 43 and 42 gauge wire, but people like Lollar would know for sure since they see old ones to rewind I'm sure.

Greg

[David Schwab]

They're all molded now from what I've seen. Its some type of nylonish material...pretty soft. Maybe its bakelite? I don't know. The toasters and high gains use the same basic bobbin with holes drilled in one for the toaster magnets, and they're mounted flush to the underside of the top bobbin, and the hi gains have the same bobbins drilled for a different size to fit the pole-pieces.

Now that you mention this, yes, I've seen the high gains, and they have those two toaster slots molded in. Are the bridge pickups still phenolic board? Bakelite is actually very hard and brittle. The toasters always did feel like nylon or PVC.

The humbuckers are epoxied and have a pair of narrow white nylon bobbins with a thick samarium cobalt magnet underneath. They also have a circuit board of sorts with the leads soldered in at the end. The early ones could get damaged or broken easily like mine did, and the later ones they carried the epoxy right up to the bottom of the board so the wires are more secure.

Someone posted a picture of the bottom one one here, I think it had a broken coil connection. Was that you?

The newest high gain pickups have a little less winds of 44 gauge and use adjustable pole-pieces and are supposed to be chimier sounding than the older style button tops, but I haven't seen or heard them yet myself.

I haven't seen a new Rick in years.

The new toasters are pretty close to the vintage ones with the longer magnets and the lower winds. They use A5 magnets and I think some of the older ones used other types and 43 and 42 gauge wire, but people like Lollar would know for sure since they see old ones to rewind I'm sure.

That's what I've heard. Hall keep saying they only used 44... but the old toasters don't sound like 44 to me. Larger wire has a looser tone.

[soundmasterg]

Now that you mention this, yes, I've seen the high gains, and they have those two toaster slots molded in. Are the bridge pickups still phenolic board? Bakelite is actually very hard and brittle. The toasters always did feel like nylon or PVC.

The bridge pickups are the same nylonish material....been that way for like 10 years or more I think.

Someone posted a picture of the bottom one one here, I think it had a broken coil connection. Was that you?

Yeah that was me...still haven't attempted to fix it yet. Possum and Bill Chapin both told me good luck, so it will be a hard one for sure.

I haven't seen a new Rick in years.


That's what I've heard. Hall keep saying they only used 44... but the old toasters don't sound like 44 to me. Larger wire has a looser tone.

I agree.....I had Possum rewind a couple for me, one with 43 up to 9.5k or so, and one with 44PE up to 12k. I think RIC uses Formvar though. Anyway, I've got the 12k 44PE one in my 350V63 right now. It has short A5 magnets and is a high gain that I drilled the poles out of so I can swap magnets at will. I plan to put some fully charged A3 magnets into it, but haven't yet.

Greg

[Harrysong]

Please Brothers, where can I buy the magnets? also I need the meaurements of the bobbin.

[salvarsan]

Please Brothers, where can I buy the magnets? also I need the meaurements of the bobbin.

Magnets are .25" diameter by 5/8" length Alnico 5 rods.
One of the magnet sources at Sources - Pickupedia
should have the exact size on stock.

The bobbin flats are 2.845" by 0.93",
just under 2-7/16" by 15/16",*
or 72mm by 23.5mm.



Between the flats, the bobbin CORE dimensions are:

0.185" height,
2.165" length,
0.25" width.

Note that the height and length are 1/16" smaller than those of a P90.
You can make a prototype by cutting and regluing a P90 bobbin.
-drh

[Michael Allen]

The idea of using/manufacturing only american made products has a few aspects. A lot of companies outsource to China/India/Mexico/etc. because it is much cheaper. Bigger factories, more cheap labour, less overhead. These companies are not interested in developing the countries they are profiting from. This is pure business and not really political.

So some companies use only american made products or manufacture only in america because it is much easier to guarantee the quality of the product. This is one important point for many companies: quality of product. Can decent products be made overseas? Of course, but in outsourcing I'd wager that the company is probably more concerned with saving money.

Another aspect is supporting local/national economy. Providing local jobs to guys that live around the corner, you know? It would be nice to be able to help develop other nations industries but lets be real here, we need to provide jobs for our locals. If we export all industry, what are we all gonna do for work here?

Of course there are so many issues and this is kind of a can-o-worms topic so I'll just keep it to business aspect. I myself try not to buy anything made in China due to personal objections to the practices of the chinese government. to each his own..

[Harrysong]

Thank you very much, Buddy