Any interest in a pickup Wiki?

[ShannonH]

I've been thinking of compiling a database of pickup information, mostly because I want to compare base data to understand how certain outputs, frequency response, etc. are achieved. As I thought of the possibility, I further thought it would be cool to have images, sounds, and any other data.

Furthermore, why not share the data? Since a wiki is a database with a web front end, it seems like an easy thing to do, but my concern is that you, duncan, dimarzio, etc, would get unhappy about the data being placed in a searchable, customizable, and completely public database.

What are your thoughts?

Peace, Shannon

[salvarsan]

I've been thinking of compiling a database of pickup information, mostly because I want to compare base data to understand how certain outputs, frequency response, etc. are achieved.

Furthermore, why not share the data? Since a wiki is a database with a web front end, it seems like an easy thing to do, but my concern is that you, duncan, dimarzio, etc, would get unhappy about the data being placed in a searchable, customizable, and completely public database.

All you need to do is do it. It would be good to have a big database
of pickups, and if it was good enough, we'd even see traffic from the big guys there, too.

Tboy even gave us a web site for it: Pickupedia

...although there seems to be some clutter there already, stuff about
magnet and wire vendors and so forth.

-drh

[belwar]

Yeah that site could be good, but it definetly needs alot of work.

[David King]

Truth be said, a few people have put a lot of effort into it with little credit. For a while TBoy had it locked down so no one could make changes. It was working well a month or two ago so I think it's ready.
I know that one member here has a large collection of documentation he would like to add but was hoping to find someone to do the actual page editing which is something I don't have time for right now.

Perhaps we should talk about an outline before we get too much time invested in the nitty-gritty.

The patent section is terrific. I stuck in some links to makers that I had on my old wiki. I sort of figured individual makers would edit their own damn pages but so far that hasn't been the case.

What's the indispensable data we would want on a pickup. If we create a table for data, it pays to have all the needed boxes from the get go.

[salvarsan]

Stuff I'd like to see:


A simple database with pickup bobbin dimensions and observed windings.




-drh

[ShannonH]

What's the indispensable data we would want on a pickup. If we create a table for data, it pays to have all the needed boxes from the get go.

I have some ideas here:
Manufacturer
Name
Position (N,M,B)
In production?
Impedance
Resonant peak
Tone Treb, Mid, Bass (1 - 10, usually provided by manufacturer)
Polepiece types
Magnet types
Wire (PE, Poly, 42,43,44)
Lead type (vintage push, 3, 4 conductor)
Bobbins/flatwork
Baseplate (nickel,brass)
cover

Picture
Soundbyte

Info provided by: Manufacturer/individual

It's really a lot of data, but doable, even if it's partial. Lots of multiple selection type items.

[automan]

Ultimately, I would like to have access to vendor timelines as to what they were using during which years, magnet type, bobbin material, wire gauge, insulation type, resistance, which pole is up, connecting wire type (4 wire, 4 wire + bare, cloth covered, braided, etc) relevant patents, etc, and maybe an exploded diagram for uncommon pickups. It would also be nice to have information in the database be hot linked to a stand alone page on that part with a list of suppliers for that part. Like, you see that this pickup contains Anico 5 pole pieces. You click on "Alnico 5" and it takes you to the page that desribes Alnico and at the bottom are links to mojo, sensmag, etc.

[Sock Puppet]

Here's my take on it having made a winder and a few pickups myself... not something I enjoyed doing after the first few sets (mind they were good)

I do enjoy seeing people starting off with an interest, researching their chosen field asking questions and seeing their proficiency evolve (take a look at the Ampage archives).

This proficiency in pickup making, as in everything else takes a lot of time and can be hard work. The information pickup makers gather, along with their opinions is often shared freely.

But...

To create a comprehensive database of all that work in a pickup wiki / list or whatever will only serve to open the door to "bandwagon jumpers" and the people who have put the work in will find the market saturated and their products devalued.

Seen it happen, old enough to say "think twice".

S.

[Old Tele man]

...as a child of the 50's TV shows, as Dragnet's Sgt. Friday would say, "...just the FACTS ma'am, just the FACTS."

...simple table of data on ALL known (and little-known) pickups would be enlightening and great historical data!

...here's an example starting point (opens in Excel): http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/cours...ickup_Data.xls

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I don't know if I'd be able to help in any substantive way, but I've long felt that a guitar/luthiery wiki is long over due. The articles on Wikipedia are really weak, and it seems like guitar nerd-dom is far beyond the nerd-doms of so many other realms. In a way it is an interesting trait - so much guitar knowledge gets traded as oral tradition (how many tricks did you hear from someone or have shown to you personally?), so naturally many folks haven't felt inclined to give away all their secrets online.

[Bruce Johnson]

Since no one else is speaking up here, I will.

Whoever puts together or runs or owns a public database like that will immediately be sued by everybody. Are you nuts?

You're talking about publishing extensive technical details on a list of products, each of which was developed, manufactured and sold for profit by a company. And the express purpose of this database is to help people make their own copies of these products? Oh yeah, sure, it's for "reference". That'll go over really well.

A database of external specifications and performance evaluations is one thing. But when you create a "cookbook" to encourage others to build copies, that's way over the line legally.

I'm a small builder, and I freely discuss details of my designs and manufacturing processes on public forums like this to help other guys out. But if you published plans for copying my pickups on your Wiki, I'd sue you too. That's just wrong.

[David Schwab]

A database of external specifications and performance evaluations is one thing. But when you create a "cookbook" to encourage others to build copies, that's way over the line legally.

I agree, and everyone needs to stop copying other companies pickups anyway.

Use some originality and do something new. Learn the basics and then experiment.

The originators didn't get there by copying other pickups. You wont either.

[David King]

I have some ideas here:
Manufacturer
Name
Position (N,M,B)
In production?
Impedance
Resonant peak
Tone Treb, Mid, Bass (1 - 10, usually provided by manufacturer)
Polepiece types
Magnet types
Wire (PE, Poly, 42,43,44)
Lead type (vintage push, 3, 4 conductor)
Bobbins/flatwork
Baseplate (nickel,brass)
cover

Picture
Soundbyte

Info provided by: Manufacturer/individual

It's really a lot of data, but doable, even if it's partial. Lots of multiple selection type items.

Why don't you all see what's there now and work with it.
http://www.pickupedia.info/Specifications

Bruce, I tend to agree with you, all I can say is that since your pickups are still available there's no need to put up any info on them. But what about in 50 years? Assuming you haven't sold out to Fender by then.

If G!bson doesn't like what they see, they'll ask TBoy to take it down before they start suing.

[ShannonH]

there's the rub...

..the lawsuit issue. I have in fact considered this as a possibility. Let me throw a couple of "what if's" out there.

What if this is a compilation of available info from the internet, say, all of dimarzio's data, all of duncans data, jason's data, etc? This is basically public data. Possum doesn't post any specifics about his pickups, and thus most of his stuff wouldn't appear.

What if any additional information comes from someone else measuring and posting their own data and is attributed this way? I'm not planning on buying loads of pickups and testing them, then posting the info, but if someone did, why is that illegal or "sueable"


I'm not looking at a means to steal info, or duplicate exact pickups, but to create a reference for guidelines. The pickups I make don't sound or measure out to Jason's specs or dimarzio spec, even if they might sound similar. I don't really want them to.

The stompbox community has an extensive base of data on their varying wikis and info pages, and no one seems to mind. People are still selling red llama clones, even though you can build one for cheap. Are they getting sued? I don't know, but I intend to ask....

Given the possibility for vitriol on this given subject, I'll keep my data to myself for now...

Peace, Shannon

[salvarsan]

What if any additional information comes from someone else measuring and posting their own data and is attributed this way? I'm not planning on buying loads of pickups and testing them, then posting the info, but if someone did, why is that illegal or "sueable"

It isn't.
Until someone uses that info to produce a replica for sale in place of the branded/trademarked/patented product, it's not illegal. *If the branded product has neither valid patent nor trademark, making and selling the replica is legal.


If someone had the skill to produce a first rate pickup replica, why would they bother when they could make their own distinctive product?


Honestly, guitar pickups are such bone-headedly simple antiquated technology that they are no more than a commodity serviced by a cottage industry. *There simply isn't enough big money in it to be worth fighting over unless your business is in Staten Island, NY or Santa Ana, CA.