HELP with VELVET HAMMERS

[fslade]

I'm writing you guys because I really need specialized help!

I bought a pair of early 70's Velvet Hammer Duo 54 humbuckers some month ago. (pictures below)









They have a single 5 way braided wire (black, green, white and red – besides the outer braided conductor).

I finally had time to send my guitar to a professional to have them installed. The question is: their response is too low and they hum.

And it shouldn't be like this, since they're well know for being high output pickups.

This is quite weird, because they measure high on the multimeter (around 11k per single bobbin and around 22k for each humbucker) but their volume is a lot lower than my old humbuckers, which measure only 9k.

In fact, I'm trying to install only one pickup, cause my guitar has a single humbucker, but I've tried both and both sound anemic. On the other hand, when I listen to a single bobbin (coil tap) it seems to be OK (and a lot louder!).

So I like to ask you guys some questions, can anyone please help me?

First, can them bobbins be out of phase in a single humbucker? Can this be the problem here?

If not, what could be the problem? Any ideas?

Second, how can I solve this? Is there anyway I can solve this only changing the way to wire it?

Please help me!!!

Thank you for your attention!

Best wishes

[Steve A.]

I'm writing you guys because I really need specialized help!

I bought a pair of early 70's Velvet Hammer Duo 54 humbuckers some month ago. (pictures below)

[ATTACH]7079[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7080[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7081[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7082[/ATTACH]

They have a single 5 way braided wire (black, green, white and red – besides the outer braided conductor).

I finally had time to send my guitar to a professional to have them installed. The question is: their response is too low and they hum.

And it shouldn't be like this, since they're well know for being high output pickups.

This is quite weird, because they measure high on the multimeter (around 11k per single bobbin and around 22k for each humbucker) but their volume is a lot lower than my old humbuckers, which measure only 9k.

In fact, I'm trying to install only one pickup, cause my guitar has a single humbucker, but I've tried both and both sound anemic. On the other hand, when I listen to a single bobbin (coil tap) it seems to be OK (and a lot louder!).

So I like to ask you guys some questions, can anyone please help me?

First, can them bobbins be out of phase in a single humbucker? Can this be the problem here?

If not, what could be the problem? Any ideas?

Second, how can I solve this? Is there anyway I can solve this only changing the way to wire it?

Please help me!!!

Thank you for your attention!

Best wishes

For the two coils in a humbucker to be in phase each coil must be of reverse polarity and winding with respect to the other coil. With the design of a humbucker using a single magnet the polarity should not be a problem. However, depending on how they are connected the two coils can be out-of-phase. If you know which two wires go to one of the coils you can try exchanging them, and that should correct the phasing problem with your humbucker.

HTH

Steve Ahola

[fslade]

Thanks a lot, Steve!!!

I'll try this wiring solution!

Do you mean only changing the way the wires are soldered to the pots?

[fslade]

For the two coils in a humbucker to be in phase each coil must be of reverse polarity and winding with respect to the other coil. With the design of a humbucker using a single magnet the polarity should not be a problem. However, depending on how they are connected the two coils can be out-of-phase. If you know which two wires go to one of the coils you can try exchanging them, and that should correct the phasing problem with your humbucker.

HTH

Steve Ahola

Steve,

This is what I've got using the meter:

Black + White wires = 22K
Black + Red = 10.9K
White + Red = 11.2k
Black + Green = –
White + Green = –
Red + Green = –

Does it help somehow?

If so, what would you suggest based on this?

[black_labb]

to get the pups in phase (assuming that is the problem) you need to flip the phase for one of the coils by swapping the connections related to that coil.

so lets say you have one coil that has the black and green coming out of it, an the other with the red and white. the green will be connected to ground, the black to the red and the white to the output (or to the tone/vol) controls then output. what you want is to put the black to ground and the green to the red, or the red to the hot/output and the white to the black.

the issue you will have if you didnt do the installation is you wont know which conductors are on the same coil. what i would do is disconnect one of the wires connected to the other wire from the humbucker. then you can use the multimeter to measure which other wire it connects to. then just switch the wires.

sorry if thats a bit confusing, but it should work

[David Schwab]

The readings didn't make sense unless the two red wires were connected together when the black and white was measured...

So I did a little digging and found some instructions. They said:

Humbucker

The 2 coils of this pickup are individually accessible in order to allow coil splitting. For normal hookup without coil splitting, tie the Black and shield wire to Ground and the Wite becomes the hot wire. Ignore the Red wire and leave it open.

For split coil operation, the red wire can be either shorted to Ground, which turns off the top coil, or can be shorted to the white wire which turns off the bottom coil.

Also, some of the humbuckers were tapped, which might explain the extra wires.

BTW, Velvet Hammer is back, and run by Red's son. You might want to contact him, he might be able to shed some light on the right way to wire them up.

Velvet Hammer Pickups

[fslade]

to get the pups in phase (assuming that is the problem) you need to flip the phase for one of the coils by swapping the connections related to that coil.

so lets say you have one coil that has the black and green coming out of it, an the other with the red and white. the green will be connected to ground, the black to the red and the white to the output (or to the tone/vol) controls then output. what you want is to put the black to ground and the green to the red, or the red to the hot/output and the white to the black.

the issue you will have if you didnt do the installation is you wont know which conductors are on the same coil. what i would do is disconnect one of the wires connected to the other wire from the humbucker. then you can use the multimeter to measure which other wire it connects to. then just switch the wires.

sorry if thats a bit confusing, but it should work

Thanks, black_labb!

Well, I think things work similar to what you described, but the red and the green are the ones tied together, so I guess the black goes to ground and the white to output, right? This was what I tried.

So, following what you explained, I should try putting the green to ground and the black with the red OR the red to output and the white to the green, correct?

I'll tell the guy to try this tomorrow!

[fslade]

The readings didn't make sense unless the two red wires were connected together when the black and white was measured...

So I did a little digging and found some instructions. They said:



Also, some of the humbuckers were tapped, which might explain the extra wires.

BTW, Velvet Hammer is back, and run by Red's son. You might want to contact him, he might be able to shed some light on the right way to wire them up.

Velvet Hammer Pickups

Thanks, David!

Yes, you are totally right, the green and the red wires were tied whan measuring the black and white wires.

Thanks for the digging. Having this and what black_labb told me in mind I hope to be able to solve this. I'll let you guys know.

I already talked to Jeff Rhodes. I even bought one of his new VHHC, which is amazing! He's a really nice and helpful guy and helped me identifying how old were these pups, but he said he didn't had how to know for sure how to wire the pups without having a look at them.

[David Schwab]

I'd get some tape around those coils before something bad happens to them!

[salvarsan]

3/4 cup vanilla ice creme,
1 shot Black Velvet.
Blend thoroughly.


-drh

[fslade]

So it seems like the problem is a bit more complex than the bobbins out of phase thing.

This out of phase issue was solved doing what you guys suggested me.

Still, the pups is louder as a single coil than as a humbucker... And the humming is also still there as a humbucker, even though lower.

I wonder if it can be related to this extra green wire which is not mentioned on the instructions sheet David posted... David, do you believe it means the pup is tapped? And, if so, would it be a question somehow?

As soon as I get it working, I'll put some tape around the coils, thanks for the advice!

[Steve Conner]

The readings didn't make sense unless the two red wires were connected together when the black and white was measured...

They would make sense if the red wire were a coil tap connected between the two (already series'd) bobbins, and the green wire were connected to nothing at all.

[David Schwab]

They would make sense if the red wire were a coil tap connected between the two (already series'd) bobbins, and the green wire were connected to nothing at all.

Yeah, now that I look at it that way, you are correct.