the heretic recants

[kevinT]

There are a lot of winders that only make buckers as well as winders that just make single coils. I don't think it's because of their inability. I think, for the most part, they feel more comfortable making a certain type.

For me, I don't offer single coils not because I can't wind them, it's because it's more efficient and cost effective for me to specialize in one type of pickup at this time. I work a full-time day job and am on the road commuting 3 hours a day. I don't have time for anything else except for buckers when I get home from work. When I retire, I'll have time to go full-on.

[Possum]

....

Well, I'm full time so I need to offer a full range, plus I'd be bored doing one type of pickup. The reason I suggest making alot of different types is because it teaches you more about pickup design than specializing does. When I'm done with my current PAF project I'm going to revisit strat pickups again, I think there's more for me to learn there and improvements I can make. I picked up my strat the other day and my ear is so tuned to buckers I had a hard time listening to it...

[soundmasterg]

BTW I am european and of course I have no idea how things are in States...

Everything here is completely different because all of you Europeans are basically aliens.

Plus you can't use leaded solder legally over there.....thats enough for me to stay here......

Greg

[soundmasterg]

Well, I'm full time so I need to offer a full range, plus I'd be bored doing one type of pickup. The reason I suggest making alot of different types is because it teaches you more about pickup design than specializing does. When I'm done with my current PAF project I'm going to revisit strat pickups again, I think there's more for me to learn there and improvements I can make. I picked up my strat the other day and my ear is so tuned to buckers I had a hard time listening to it...

Yeah the Strat is certainly a unique guitar with bright pickups as compared to most buckers. To me its a bit of a generic sound far too often. I haven't brought my Strat to the jam in over a year, would much rather play a Tele, LP, Gretsch, even a RIC!...hehe.

Greg

[Grindell]

I go back to the idea of the pickup makers association we had going on awhile ago. SK ran it more for purchasing parts, but there were a bunch of us that belonged. Sk, obviously, Jason, but there were a bunch of others, including small guys like myself.

I'd say we restart the Pickup Makers Association, but this time more emphasis on sharing ideas. Good deals on parts always helps, too.

And, I'm sure we all host a website, so one of us could probably host it at almost no cost.....

[Dave Kerr]

I'd say we restart the Pickup Makers Association, but this time more emphasis on sharing ideas.

You mean, keep the rabble away and make it private, as opposed to this place? Poor form to suggest on TBoy's site that you all pick up and run somewhere else.

[Grindell]

You mean, keep the rabble away and make it private, as opposed to this place? Poor form to suggest on TBoy's site that you all pick up and run somewhere else.

Yeah, because that was my intent....

TBoy, you know I love this site!

But, having said that, this post just reminded me why I prefer to go it alone and also why I don't hardly post here.

[Dave Kerr]

I didn't mean to be insulting, maybe I'm just not understanding what you're suggesting or what problem you're trying to solve. Members here PM each other all the time when they want to keep certain info private, and post publicly if they want advice, are looking for suppliers info, etc.

[Mark Hammer]

I am providing a demo guitar with pickups as well, so folks can try them. We'll see how that goes.

As I was scrolling through the thread, I was mentally preparing to post exactly the same thing. So I'm glad you already thought of it.

When there is no way to actually hear what your pickups sound like then all the buyer has to go on is rumour and reputation ("Yeah, I hear they're pretty good. Maybe even as good as XXXXX.") Since you're not getting them made in China or Korea, then the pricepoint you need to aim for is likely to give the prospective buyer pause for thought. And if you HAVE no reputation at that point, it's gonna be a long time until you see any real returns on your investment.

In which case, I think your primary pillar to lean on is "Here, try 'em out and see for yourself." If you make more than one kind of pickup, then you should consider a guitar with some sort of proprietary slot/jig that might let you listen to pickup A with the guitar, and then pickup B or C with the same guitar in the same position. That lets people compare not only tone but output.

The accompanying question is whether it is better to make it hard to compare your pickups against other brands, or easy. And that, i turn would depend on what your long-term plans are. If you simply like to make pickups and are really only aiming for a cottage industry that lets you serve a hobby, watch the ball-game and earn a couple of bucks at the same time, then let the customer slap on Duncans, Stephens, Fralins, or whatever captures their fancy. Indeed, you might even consider the manufacturing of "tryout slugs" (to slide different pickups into the demo guitar) as a secondary business line.

[ShannonH]

prepared for the wait...

When there is no way to actually hear what your pickups sound like then all the buyer has to go on is rumour and reputation ("Yeah, I hear they're pretty good. Maybe even as good as XXXXX.") Since you're not getting them made in China or Korea, then the pricepoint you need to aim for is likely to give the prospective buyer pause for thought. And if you HAVE no reputation at that point, it's gonna be a long time until you see any real returns on your investment.

I have worked some trades with some local musicians and they dig 'em, and have compared favorably to the big boys, and also to Fralin (which to me is a huge compliment.) At any rate, I'm prepared to take the time to see it grow. I've got time and staying power, despite the frustration I sometimes let get away from me. I'll stand my pickups against whatever, it doesn't matter to me, because then I can get feed back on how to improve. Thanks!

Shannon

[Possum]

....

There is a series of phases you will go through as pickup maker that pretty much everyone goes through. Phase one, you wind your first couple of pickups and wow they sound better than anything you bought. Phase two, you've been doing it for a whole year and think you have a grip on it all and feel confident in what you're doing and are sure you're the new genius on the block. Phase three, probably around two years, you tried some experiments and are trying to understand the physics of coils, wire and magnets, and realize you don't know much, and probably had a pro guitar player tell you your stuff sucks. Phase four, if you made it this far 3-4 years, you've done your homework, burned alot of wire and parts in extensive experiments and have a better handle on it things, but realize no one can know it all. You probably bought an LCR meter maybe, and tried using computer software to analyze frequency response and peak resonances. You start to get a sense that pickups are amazingly complex things to really understand and manipulate. Phase five 5 years plus, you know you will never know it all and for every step forward there are two steps back, then three steps forward, and you just accept that you excel at some things and suck at others. Phase six, you wonder why the fuck you got into this business if you're doing it full time, but still love it. You're bored with the crap parts all the companies sell and you start to truly create original products and stretch out. Phase 7 you die of old age and still didn't know it all and never stopped learning. With your last breath you muttered "humbucker....." Your wife thought you were crazy through all the phases.

[Possum]

....

One thing I will recommend to improve as a pickup maker, then you can tell me to fluck off----learn to play the guitar better. I was fortunate to attend the Portland blues jam hosted by the best guitar player in the city and his musician friends, some of whom are nationally famous. Playing onstage with these guys and watching them made me a better player, and it taught me what good tone is. Blues is the most brutal of all the genres in my opinion on how good your pickups are. These guys don't use "talent boxes" and mostly use older hand wired vintage amps with no master volume. they just turn up and play. Mediocre pickups can't stand up to that. I don't think there is any better way than to attend a blues jam where the pro players hang out and learn from them to the point you can stand on stage with them and not be shunned afterwards :-) A pro player can test your pickups and give you a brutally honest opinion too, they hear things no ordinary mortal can, be prepared to have your feelings hurt, been there done that. Of all the pickup makers out there I think Jason Lollar is probably the best player among all the pickup makers. It is also very important that pickups be tested on stage before you sell to the public too, there's no other way around that one

[David Schwab]

It's not bad advice to know how to play, and how to get good tones, both live and in the studio.

I personally test out all my bass pickups in a live setting, and I often bring a bass with new designs by our local music store and try out the various amps.

I got to try my Jazz pickups out last Friday for the first time on stage when I was called to fill in for someone at the last minute. It was one of those "can you learn 50 songs by tomorrow?" Ummmmm, sure!

(The guy behind the electronic drums used to play in Bon Jovi.)

[Possum]

....

Thats the other big hurdle....amps. Jason told me he pretty much has one of every basic kind of amp out there to test pickups with. That was real discouraging to hear when I started out and all I had was the Blues Junior and broke. I have most amp types except the bigger Marshalls, someday though. It is completely amazing how PAFs in particular can sound so different in different amps, the tweed type Victoria I have really emphasizes the bass and mids and cuts the treble down, they get muddy pretty fast in that one. Live testing is really important, the worst time I made a truly horrible set it sounded great through the BJ in my home office, but at the jam through a real amp they were awful and I found that out by convincing one of the pros to try them onstage, while I melted into a pool of embarrassed goo on the floor...

[ken]

Possum is right that you should know how to play... somewhat. Many people wish that they could play better than they do, myself included.

You don't have to be a rawk god to sell pickups, but I do admit that there were times at shows I did that I wished I could play half as well as some of the people I was trying to sell my pickups to. Yes, a good grounding in chords and scales is always a good idea, but you're not trying to impress the locals with your technical ability. What really matters is how they sound in the room you're in. If you can get a good tone wherever you are, then people will check you out. Hand the nearest one your guitar and let them try it out. Good pickups should almost sell themselves.

Ken