Rickenbacker Bass Pickup

[RedHouse]

They look great! Just curious, are the pole pieces matched to the radius of the fingerboard?

Well normally yes, but these were requested to be no-stagger so I didn't.

[David Schwab]

It's a pretty flat fingerboard anyway. The toaster neck pickups aren't staggered either.

Did you use a rubber magnet?

[RedHouse]

...Did you use a rubber magnet?

Well, what does it look like?

[David Schwab]

Well, what does it look like?

Looks like a rubber magnet. Where did you get it?

[RedHouse]

Looks like a rubber magnet. Where did you get it?

Thanks I was hoping you'd think so David.

Well it's only smoke-n-mirrors, a facade, or a valance it you will.

I have been making my "R" pickups with a ceramic bar magnet which seems to sound great, and works mechanically in the neck pickup but when this bridge pickup thing came up I had to re-think the construction because the original had some screws right where my bar magnet would go.

I came up with some material used in retail displays, it's a light machineable plastic (unknown name) that when cut and sanded the edges look remarkably like the rubber magnet. I then cut and machined the material into a retangular donut with the center section cut out, making room for the bar magnet and wiring connections.

I think it looks much like the pics that have been posted of late, and the two customers think it looks right.

[RedHouse]

So on the Horseshoe thing, I thought it and the Toaster are Rickenbacker trademarks, then I saw this website, this guy is making Horseshoes:

Turner Renaissance Model T guitar

[David King]

That would be Rick Turner. He's been at it a while, probably went to grade school with John Hall.

[soundmasterg]

I think RIC went after Jason instead of Turner because Jason's pickups would fit in RICs and they want to corner that market, even though they don't make a real horseshoe, or sell their pickup these days except on new basses. I don't think their trademark for the horseshoe would stand though if someone with funds fought it.......

Greg

[RedHouse]

.. I don't think their trademark for the horseshoe would stand though if someone with funds fought it.......

Greg

I'm thinking the same thing.

Other markets with much more value in trademarks have "aftermarket" suppliers of "reproduction" goods, but of course I'm in no position to test that theory.

For instance, here is an actual company logo (not just a part of a product like a pickup) which is offered after market with the same parameters, the original company doesn't produce them anymore and hasn't for years but still holds the trademark on the logo.

YearOne Online Shopping

Restoration Parts | Camaro Parts | Firebird Parts | Trans Am Parts | Nova Parts | Chevy 2 Parts | Impala Parts | Truck Parts | Automotive Parts | Accessories | Orange County | Huntington Beach | 1.800.854.1280

Don's East Coast Restorations - 1967 CHEVELLE MALIBU GRILLE EMBLEM | Classic Chevy and Chevelle Parts | EastCoastRestorations.com

Danchuk 1957 Chevy "Chevrolet" Script, Bel Air V8, 13"

just a few examples of automotive aftermarket manufacturers/suppliers that trade a product that involves anothers logo or actual company name. All four of these examples the name and logo are still in-play by their owners but these guys are allowed to conduct trade which includes these names/logo's.

So are we to believe each one of these companies wrote to GM and asked permission to make and sell copies of their company logo? that somehow seems unlikely, I'm sure that the lawyers at GM would have put the kibosh on that when the paperwork came across their desk.

I wonder if the deliberate wording "Reproduction" is the key to fending off lawsuits, and of course having the appropriate non-affiliation disclaimer tagged onto your advertising.

I'm also wondering if there's a legal vehicle (no pun intended) for doing such things and paying tribute/royalty to the trademark owner much the way songs in the music industry are handled. One doesn't need permission to do anothers song and sell it, one only needs to pay the appropriate royalties to those who hold the publishing rights and acknowlege the original writer.

Either way, going to the USP&T website and doing a quick search on the live trademark "Toaster" one gets 49 hits and none of them are held by RIC or Rickenbacker Instrument Company (or Hall) or are relative to electric instrument pickups or transducers.

Further searching (live or dead) on "Toaster Pickups" and/or "Horseshoe Pickups" results in "No records were found to match the criteria of your query."

Perhaps Jason might chime-in here as he has said he's seen paperwork regarding Rickenbacker's trademarks.

Probably should have started a new thread on this topic.

..................
[Edit] even a search under design code 13.03.04 which is for the visual element of a Toaster doesn't return anything relative to Rickenbacker.
..................
[Edit-2] each Trademark page on the TM office website has a tab called "TDR" which is for "Trademark Document Retreival", when you access that tab you will see the actual documentation which was submitted for trademarks. One of the things that is very interesting is the visual "specimen" which can be submitted, in this case it's where one should find pictoral and verbal references to "Toaster" and "Horseshoe", interstingly none of that is present in the specimens submitted for trademarks.

Rickenbackers "specimens" submitted to the TM office when filing for their trademarks appear questionable as to "Toasters" and "Horseshoes" as their trademerks.

For instance, here they call their pickups "vintage style" (not Toaster)

(click on "specimens" link on these pages)
http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/p...TEXT=75721967#
http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/P...te=27-Nov-2007

more interestingly, in Rickenbacker's "specimen" submitted for the Bass guitar style trademark the example doesn't even have a Toaster or a Horseshoe, it shows the hi-gains:

http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/p...TEXT=74144425#

[David Schwab]

I think RIC went after Jason instead of Turner because Jason's pickups would fit in RICs and they want to corner that market, even though they don't make a real horseshoe, or sell their pickup these days except on new basses. I don't think their trademark for the horseshoe would stand though if someone with funds fought it.......

They went after Jason and another guy too.

I've often wondered about this, and think maybe Turner worked out some kind of licensing deal or something.

I don't think it would stand up in court either.

[RedHouse]

Of the Rickenbacker Bridge pickup

Electricdaveyboy, do you recall what year bass this pickup was from?

[verhoevenc]

Personally, I love my Ric 4003 bass! Which makes me really interested in Ric-style pickups too
I was thinking about these strange screws they're using as the pole-pieces. I get why they took out the screw heads as people would think they were adjustable, but what would stop you from buying some 5/8" one-way 10-24 stainless screws and using those? Screw them in until they're at the right radius, grind down the extra sticking out the bottom of your flatwork so they sit flat on the magnet below, wind it up, and paint everything black like they did. I think this may be the way I try things. I also love the idea of hiding a normal ceramic bar inside a 'faux rubber magnet' block!
I'm thinking this would be cool paired with a more simple 'flatwork, A5 rods, n wire' style pickup that is aesthetically similar in the neck.
Chris

[David Schwab]

Personally, I love my Ric 4003 bass! Which makes me really interested in Ric-style pickups too
I was thinking about these strange screws they're using as the pole-pieces. I get why they took out the screw heads as people would think they were adjustable, but what would stop you from buying some 5/8" one-way 10-24 stainless screws and using those? Screw them in until they're at the right radius, grind down the extra sticking out the bottom of your flatwork so they sit flat on the magnet below, wind it up, and paint everything black like they did. I think this may be the way I try things. I also love the idea of hiding a normal ceramic bar inside a 'faux rubber magnet' block!
I'm thinking this would be cool paired with a more simple 'flatwork, A5 rods, n wire' style pickup that is aesthetically similar in the neck.
Chris

They are using rivets. They used available parts I guess, and have kept using pretty much the same parts since then.

There's no reason at all why you have to use screws. But if you change all that stuff with the magnets and all it would probably sound different from the stock pickup.

Did you see RedHouse's recreation in this thread?

Most stainless steel is non magnetic, so it wont work in a pickup.

[verhoevenc]

How I overlooked the fact stainless in not magnetic is beyond me hahaha. Either way, one would hope I could find something magnetic that would give a similar look to their poles.
This is kinda what I had in mind as the pair, but with the screw/rivet poles for the bridge pickup.

Chris

[6string_rodder]

Hey all, new to the forum here- I've gotten some useful info here in the past, thought maybe I'd start contributing.

I have a rewind to do on bridge p.up from a 70's 4001 Ric.
Its came in open so I have no idea what the resistance is supposed to be. The neck reads 8.2k on this bass, so I'm gonna aim this side of 9 for the bridge, which seems to be in the ballpark from what I've read here.

As for the wire, my mic says it's .003", and I mean exactly .003" or even slightly over, (yes, that includes insulation I know..)which leads me to believe its #42
I'll let you know results when I'm done, as in how many turns it took and how the output balances etc.

Incidentally, I have no idea where to source #44 wire- any tips will be appreciated.
And to pick up an earlier topic from this thread, I charge $40/coil plus my standard install/remove fee which $30/p.up in most cases. It's a little on the low side for where I am (Toronto) but I'm kind of new to winding and it's my "thanks for the vote of confidence" price for the time being until I get some more copper under my belt.