Multiple Gauge Wire

[automan]

Does anyone have a prior art example of someone stacking wire gauges on the same bobbin?

I am talking about having 3 eyelets on a strat pickup, starting with 42 AWG on the first, ending it on the second eyelet, attaching a 43AWG to that same second eyelet and finishing the 43AWG on the third eyelet.

Surely it has been done before, I am just looking for an example.

[Possum]

....

I think Frank Falbo said Duncan does it, but its one of those things no one talks about. That new EVH pickup uses different guages on each bobbin but not mixed. I think probably everyone has tried it, I did recently and it didn't really float my boat but am sure some use it....

[Chris Klein]

Don Mare is notorious for using 42 & 43 in his tapped pickups.

[automan]

So I made a multigauge tapped coil tele bridge pickup today at work. It sounded terrible. I put on 8000 winds of 42 and 2000 winds of 43 and it was terrible. Even just the 8000 winds didnt sound good to me. It got a little better when the other 2000 coils were added in, but still not good. I think the problem was I made my bobbin way too tall expecting to need all the room, which I didnt even come close to using. I used .671 length mags flush on top and bottom. Most all the pickups I made tended to be a little shorter and fatter than stock or vintage.

I am going to try again tomorrow with a shorter bobbin, putting on the 43 for the first bulk like an older style tele, then filling out the bobbin with 42. .. however much the bobbin will hold.

[Possum]

....

I tried one attempt at a tapped tele bridge and it sounded awful too. When you have two coils, remember each one of the coils is sitting in touch with the other coil, so its like wrapping a huge chunk of copper around each coil, it just dumbs it down. Red Rhodes used to make a tapped coil, and it was fairly popular, so it can be done but takes more patience that I have, plus tapped single coils have never been good sellers ever. Mojotone is selling tapped strat pickups with a custom wiring harness. If you're going to do a tapped coil maybe you should stick with one gauge instead of mixing. I tried mixing wire in a bucker but I kept the gauges close to eachother, nom-min and nom-max, no tap. Didn't like that either. I use a volume pot instead

[David Schwab]

I use a volume pot instead

But that's not going to make the pickup sound like it's wound less... and turning down your volume will make the tone darker, unless you have a treble bleed cap.

I play in a band with a guy that has the tapped Barden humbuckers. They sound very good, and the tapped tone sounds a lot like a Strat pickup. He has them on an old LP Custom, and they do make it sound Fenderish, as much as you can with that scale length.

You just have to take the outside coil out of the circuit to avoid a closed loop situation. But even then, I used to experiment with closed loops tuned with a cap. You can get some interesting tones.

[Possum]

...

If you use 50's wiring in Gibson stuff, it doesn't get as dark as modern wiring when turning the pot down, all my Gibson type guitars are wired that way. There are some better pots out there too, RSGuitarworks has audio taper pots that are superior than most with a better taper. I've never tried the treble bleed thing. I like old school stuff. If you have a tapped coil, I mean a real tapped coil, one coil with a tap inside it, when use the full coil it'll be darker than the tapped part because there's more wire. "Tapped" humbuckers aren't a true tap, you're just selecting one coil instead of two.

Most of the blues guy I know use a transparent boost pedal if they want more grunt, works better than a preset tap in the middle of a coil and you have more control over the outcome. I wonder if there are any reviews of the Mojo "convertible" set up yet. They advertise it as being the same as using a pedal.....hmmmmm

Curtis Novak has some coil with a whole bunch of multiple taps inside one coil, I think it gets good reviews....
Hmmm, I can't find that product anymore, maybe no one bought them...

[David Schwab]

If you use 50's wiring in Gibson stuff, it doesn't get as dark as modern wiring when turning the pot down, all my Gibson type guitars are wired that way.

I always use one volume and tone control, even when I had a Les Paul. That whole thing of turning down one pickup and it cuts off the other one is stupid!

You still lose some high end, even with a single volume control, like on a Strat or Tele.

There are some better pots out there too, RSGuitarworks has audio taper pots that are superior than most with a better taper. I've never tried the treble bleed thing.

This is true, but it doesn't stop the load when turning down the pot, it only makes the taper smoother.

I like old school stuff.

Tele's are pretty damn old school, and used a treble bleed cap.

If you have a tapped coil, I mean a real tapped coil, one coil with a tap inside it, when use the full coil it'll be darker than the tapped part because there's more wire. "Tapped" humbuckers aren't a true tap, you're just selecting one coil instead of two.

That's the idea. You want to be able to go from a clean sounding humbucker, like a Filter'Tron, to something that's like an overwound pickup. That way you can have the clean bright tone, and the hot darker tone.

The Bardens go from a clean almost Strat like tone, to a regular humbucker tone. Neither setting is dark. Both coils are tapped of course, so it remains a humbucker.

Most of the blues guy I know use a transparent boost pedal if they want more grunt, works better than a preset tap in the middle of a coil and you have more control over the outcome. I wonder if there are any reviews of the Mojo "convertible" set up yet. They advertise it as being the same as using a pedal.....hmmmmm

That's louder, but doesn't change the tone. The idea of tapped pickups is to not only get a louder signal, but to change the tone. That can be good on a Strat, where you might want a fatter darker tone from the bridge pickup, similar to a humbucker, and then you can switch to a clean bright tone.

I've never made any tapped pickups, but it seems like a cool idea in some situations. I generally like clean bright humbuckers, even for distortion, but the over wound stuff has a totally different feel when distorted. Probably because the resonant peak is lower and stuff.

[Amit]

I wire my guitars with the tone pot connected to the *wiper* of the vol.
That way you don't loose any treble when rolling down the volume and there is no need for any treble bleed cap (which sounds fake anyway).

This single wire 0$ "custom job" is more rewarding then any $300 pickup change... because it works

[David Schwab]

I wire my guitars with the tone pot connected to the *wiper* of the vol.
That way you don't loose any treble when rolling down the volume...

Sure you do, just not as much. Unless you are buffering your pickup you will get some high end loss when you turn down the volume.

[automan]

Not just high end loss, but mid and low end loss too!

[Amit]

Sure you do, just not as much. Unless you are buffering your pickup you will get some high end loss when you turn down the volume.

If you can't hear it... it's not there
Let your ears answer that and not 1/(2*π*R*C) or a pair of probes.

[David Schwab]

Not just high end loss, but mid and low end loss too!

No, that's not the way it works. Look what happens when you turn down a 500K pot. For this example we will use a linear taper pot, because it's easier.

You start off with 500K between the pickup and ground, and 0 resistance between the pickup and the amp. Now turn it down half way. You now have 250K between the pickup and ground... more loading, AND 250K in series with the pickup to the amp... yet more loading. That increases the impedance of the circuit.

So while that does reduce the overall level, you will lose more high end than mids and lows due to the effects of loading. Larger value pots aggravate the situation.

Passive systems are lossy.

[David Schwab]

If you can't hear it... it's not there
Let your ears answer that and not 1/(2*π*R*C) or a pair of probes.

You can indeed hear it. That's why people started using treble bleed caps and active systems.

And when you wire the tone to the wiper it changes the effect of the tone control as you reduce the volume, since it's on the amp side, and not the pickup side.

You can easily make a recording with your volume all the way up, and then half way down, and then match the levels. You will hear less high end.

But it's generally used to good effect. When people have their amp cranked up, turning down the volume cleans up the sound, and gives it a more mellow top end, which compensates for the gain.

Set up a totally clean tone and listen.

[automan]

I didnt say the loss would be equal. I was just making a joke about when turn turn the volume down... well... everything gets decreased.

Jokes in text sometimes fail