Treble bleed alternatives

[David Schwab]

?

It sounded dull when they turned down. The treble bleed cap was an attempt to fix that. That was way back with the first Fender guitars and tube amps.

[RedHouse]

Gibson - Gibson Guitar: Electric, Acoustic and Bass Guitars, Baldwin Pianos

Oh Mike, you are a wild card!

[frankfalbo]

It sounded dull when they turned down. The treble bleed cap was an attempt to fix that.

That's why I said in my post that it doesn't matter which net effect you're trying to counteract, capacitance or resistive loading. All this discussion over what it's actually counteracting are somewhat moot because it doesn't accurately counteract any of them. It's a "mod" no matter how you slice it. The only real way to counteract it is with an active signal.

Some guys take it way overboard so that it's almost a coil cut sound for funky rhythms, and full on for leads, and use it like a channel switch. Conversely, some guys spend hours finding the right cap and resistor value to get the most linear tonal response as the pot tapers, which will still change with cable length/capacitance and what's on the other end. If you really want to solve the problem with your EE hat on, you'd buffer the signal coming out of the pickups. Problem solved, yet I hate it. I much prefer the organic interaction of a passive circuit. I like to buffer the signal at the front of the pedal board, but not prior. Everyone's different.

Incidentally, when it comes to modern bass tones, I prefer all active, all the time. But for vintage Jazz and P-Bass tones the same rules apply.

[Joe Gwinn]

Gibson - Gibson Guitar: Electric, Acoustic and Bass Guitars, Baldwin Pianos

Only $10,000. I've never seen one open, but I guess that you are saying that the cavities are not and perhaps cannot be shielded, so we must use shielded wire.

[Steve Conner]

Fraid so. The Les Paul and guitars like it have their pickup selector switch on the top bout, and they drill a long hole right through the guitar body to run wires to the switch from the other controls. You can't really put shielding on the inside of that tunnel.

Hollowbodies are even harder to screen, because the whole inside of the thing is one big cavity and you can't get inside it. No, you can't fill that 1947 D'Angelico New Yorker up with copper paint and shake it!

[Stealth]

If the channel is straightly routed, wouldn't it be possible to use small-diameter solid copper tubing to shield the switch selector wires? Or, if it's fairly curved and snake-like, braided metal tubing like the one used for hoses? I admit, soldering to it may be a royal P-I-T-A, but it would provide a fairly decent Faraday cage.

Of course, semi-hollows and hollow-bodies are a basket case in their own right. Wonder how much tape a single ES335 would eat.

Edit: Will report back on it once I refinish that old 70s SG-like bass.

[David Schwab]

Fraid so. The Les Paul and guitars like it have their pickup selector switch on the top bout, and they drill a long hole right through the guitar body to run wires to the switch from the other controls. You can't really put shielding on the inside of that tunnel.

They actually rout a slot before the top is glued on, but it's the same difference.

Or, if it's fairly curved and snake-like, braided metal tubing like the one used for hoses?

That sounds like braided coax cable to me!

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I always found it funny that for all the people who claim that excessive wire length inside the guitar kills tone, I haven't heard anyone (until now of course) bring up the idea of the les paul and how it wastes lots of wire by putting the switch up there.

Gibson did seem to be hyper concerned about noise at various points in time. I've seen a lot of 60s/early 70s (correct me if I'm misremembering) Gibsons where all of the pots/switches were soldered into these metal cages, so even the lugs weren't left unshielded.

I haven't done any a/b comparisons with shielded/unshielded wire, but what Possum says seems plausible to me. The stranded shielded wire inside squiers and epiphones is so thin it can sometimes be hard to work with. Try sending it around a tight corner or put a touch too much heat to it and it has shorted out completely, so the insulation obviously is barely adequate. Braided shields over cloth on the other hand, I can put my iron straight on it and it doesn't have any problems. The super fancy (and hard to strip) stuff that EMG uses is pretty robust, too. I typically don't worry too much unless it is an archtop since shielded cable in tandem with some good foil shielding seems redundant.

[Stealth]

That sounds like braided coax cable to me!

Now that you mention it, sounds suspiciously like it. Doy.
Also, while we're on the subject, which would perform better at attenuating outside interference? A mesh-like braided coax or a solid, continuous metal tube? If I recall right, a Faraday cage is supposed to be more of a grid and less of a solid surface.

[Steve Conner]

Solid metal is better than braid or mesh, but at audio frequencies the difference doesn't really matter. It only gets to be an issue once the wavelength gets short enough to squeeze through the holes.

Last year a friend brought me one of the new BFG Les Pauls to get the cavities shielded and the killswitch replaced. I seem to remember it had unshielded wires running to the switch through that long hole. After I shielded the cavities, it still hummed, and I had to replace those wires with shielded stuff to quiet it down.

It was a weird looking guitar, but it sounded good! I don't like Les Pauls as a rule, but that one was cool. It was lighter than a regular one, and had a brighter, more cutting tone. You could argue that it's just because I've never tried a really good LP.

[David Schwab]

Solid metal is better than braid or mesh, but at audio frequencies the difference doesn't really matter. It only gets to be an issue once the wavelength gets short enough to squeeze through the holes.

EMG used to use brass screening for shielding. Now I think they use a molded carbon shield. I've been using brass screen for a couple of years now in some of my pickups.

Last year a friend brought me one of the new BFG Les Pauls to get the cavities shielded and the killswitch replaced. I seem to remember it had unshielded wires running to the switch through that long hole. After I shielded the cavities, it still hummed, and I had to replace those wires with shielded stuff to quiet it down.

Real Les Pauls use shielding wire to the switch. Even my cheap FirstAct Garagemaster uses shielded cable to the switch.

Boy Gibson really wants to milk that stupid BFG for profit! They charge the price for a finshed guitar that hasn't even been sanded or finished and has garbage parts on it.

[RedHouse]

Solid metal is better than braid or mesh, but at audio frequencies the difference doesn't really matter. It only gets to be an issue once the wavelength gets short enough to squeeze through the holes.

Last year a friend brought me one of the new BFG Les Pauls to get the cavities shielded and the killswitch replaced. I seem to remember it had unshielded wires running to the switch through that long hole. After I shielded the cavities, it still hummed, and I had to replace those wires with shielded stuff to quiet it down.

It was a weird looking guitar, but it sounded good! I don't like Les Pauls as a rule, but that one was cool. You could argue that it's just because I've never tried a really good LP.

Wow, unshielded wire through the switch channel route on the BFG eh? darn, I wish we had some pics for the scrapbook!

I'll need to eat my words (above) about decent guitars having decent wiring!