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how to make punches and dies....

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  • how to make punches and dies....

    I posted this on another thread but wanted to send this separately in case anyone misses it.


    First....get a Whitney 91 punch, it is a 10 ton (TEN ton) hand operated punch press, bench mounted. Cuts through 3/32" forbon like a hot knife through butter. They weigh about 90 pounds and don't cost too much when you can find them. I bought 2 for $100.00 each.

    Cut forbon into strips the short width of the finished piece (about .98" or whatever it is).

    Create trimming and parting dies to punch the shape out of the strip. The width of the strip takes care of two sides of the finished piece. You have to punch only the other two sides.

    In all cases, the sides of the forbon pieces (strat and tele top and bottom) are symmetrical.

    You create the dies out of sections of tool steel bolted together. The punch portions you create out of tool steel mounted in a carrier.

    Since the sides are symmetrical, you profile a piece of tool steel about 12 - 18 inches long, and cut the punch pieces (think slices of bread) as you need them, harden and grind to finished shape, and mount in a carrier.

    You create the punch with a degree of "shear" so the full 10 tons is concentrated on a portion of the punch as it travels down through the material...NOT on the whole blank at the same time. Think large paper cutter.

    You can punch 1/4 in holes in thick forbon with a good hole puncher. It isn't dead easy but I've done it to determine what kind of effort / power is needed. Use the same principles to design a multiple hole puncher using a Whitney 91 punch for power.

    What you have to figure out is how to exactly shape and grind the punch and die to provide the proper clearance to produce the blank to the size you want it.

    Obtain and figure out how to use a surface grinder. Without it your efforts may well be futile. With it, you can make just about anything you will need, punch, die and mold-wise.

    I have given you a boat load of ideas. The rest you will have to figure out. No more hints. This is the basis of why the punches and dies cost so much to have made for each part you need to make. They are built to last and be maintained by a tool and die maker.

    I have mentioned sources of information on these forums before.

    DoctorX

  • #2
    Interesting, gotnee pics by any chance for the mechanically engineered challenged?

    A close up of the two parts of the die, the press and the resulting piece would be a VERY big help for me to understand this better.
    www.MaillouxBasses.com
    www.OzBassForum.com

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    • #3
      Click image for larger version

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      There are other alternatives out there. It's the general spec that's important.

      It's no picnic making shears, punches and dies but it is worth it.
      sigpic Dyed in the wool

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      • #4
        Here they are punching out parts at Bill Lawrence


        "Here, Ross is stamping out coilform parts."
        Last edited by David Schwab; 01-22-2007, 06:52 PM. Reason: typo
        It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


        http://coneyislandguitars.com
        www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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        • #5
          It's just too bad you can't really see what the dies look like. That would give a better idea of what we have to build/machine exactly to use a press.
          www.MaillouxBasses.com
          www.OzBassForum.com

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          • #6
            If you've see a paper punch for 3 ring binders you'll have some idea.
            The parts have to be massive and rigid and perfectly aligned. You also need a way to clear the debris (chads?) out of the female section so it doesn't get clogged up.

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            • #7
              That info is great. Fuel for the mind.

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              • #8
                the book that explains it all....

                This is the book that explains the design principles and methods for die design. I use this book (among others) daily.

                http://www.industrialpress.com/en/Bo...3/Default.aspx

                It is called "Die Design Fundamentals"

                The picture from Bill Lawrence Pickups in an earlier reply is showing an arbor press in action, with a small die shoe at its base. This can also work, and a good sized arbor press is about $160.00 new from Victor Machinery among others. The key here is rigidity and weight. The press and die(s) must be rigidly and securely mounted to each other, bench, floor, etc for good results. No half measures allowed. The bigger and heavier, the better -- within reason, naturally.

                DoctorX

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                • #9
                  Here's a Whitney #91 on ebay
                  http://cgi.ebay.com/Whitney-Heavy-Du...QQcmdZViewItem

                  Buy it now: $199
                  Ship it tomorrow: way too much...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by David King View Post
                    One thing that bothers me is the perfectly uniform coat of paint all over everything, never mind if that part of the item should be painted. This kind of paint job often bespeaks an attempt to cover a problem up, and sometimes only ignorance. Sometimes the problem is rust, sometimes it's evidence of a crack or repaired crack in the frame.

                    The note about the crooked handle is also a worry - someone overstressed the handle, and perhaps the frame. If the frame is bent or crooked, the punch will be essentially useless.

                    I'd give this one a pass. Such presses are not exactly rare.

                    Buy it now: $199
                    Ship it tomorrow: way too much...
                    It will weigh almost two hundred pounds when crated. Between crating and shipping, it could be an added $200, raising the total cost to $400. Unless one lives in a machine-poor area of the country, it should be possible to do better. I'd check local used-machinery dealers, and craigslist.

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                    • #11
                      Whitney 91 punch....

                      The Whitney 91 punch you see on ebay if you follow the link posted earlier is the larger version with the longer depth to the rear of the press. The ones I bought have a shallower depth (about 4 - 5 inches give or take). You do not need the version you see on e-bay, but the smaller one. The frame is still 2.5 inches thick regardless.

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                      • #12
                        I've been looking around trying to find something like this in the UK. Can one of you UK guys tell me what kew words to use in my searches?

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                        • #13
                          link to new Whitney 91 punch press

                          www.americanwhitney.com

                          815-965-1792

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by corduroyew View Post
                            I've been looking around trying to find something like this in the UK. Can one of you UK guys tell me what kew words to use in my searches?
                            Try arbour or arbor press in ebay.

                            S.

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                            • #15
                              After a bit of trawling I've found something in the UK.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              This company does quite a few models

                              http://www.hartleige.com/bench-punches.htm

                              No idea of prices yet.
                              sigpic Dyed in the wool

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