CNC Winder Controller Board group Buy

[David Schwab]

I think what I figured out is that it's hard to even give away pickups to people you know let alone find people who will pay for them.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I had to temporarily close my online store so I can catch up on back orders. I have 18 sets to make.

Some of my pickups are now at NAMM... but not with my logo on them.

[RedHouse]

There is a kit! Motors, controllers and all.

Look in this thread:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16956/

350 euro

Wow there sure is, didn't see that post, how many of our members bought those?

I guess that's the problem with having multiple threads of the same group-buy, perhaps an admin should add links to the top post of the threads so members like mkat can find the relevant stuff.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I had to temporarily close my online store so I can catch up on back orders. I have 18 sets to make.

Some of my pickups are now at NAMM... but not with my logo on them.

I missed NAMM this year, picked up a bad cold/flu which had me down, oh well.

I think what I figured out is that it's hard to even give away pickups to people you know let alone find people who will pay for them.

Doesn't sound like your pickup ventures are doing too well if you can't even give them away, is it a business or a hobby?

If it's a business, do you advertise?, have a website (at least)?, hang out with working players?, visit music stores and press-flesh?, etc. It's hard for "customers" to buy from you if they don't know you exist.

[mkat]

I guess that's the problem with having multiple threads of the same group-buy, perhaps an admin should add links to the top post of the threads so members like mkat can find the relevant stuff.

Yep, that exactly right, the info is all over the place. I have to read all threads to understand what in the world is going on with this and it's still not 100% clear LOL. Definitely, it would be nice all the relevant info in the first post.

[RedHouse]

Yep, that exactly right, the info is all over the place. I have to read all threads to understand what in the world is going on with this and it's still not 100% clear LOL. Definitely, it would be nice all the relevant info in the first post.

Yeah, the forum rules shouldn't allow spawning separate threads on a subject like group-buys.

[David King]

Doesn't sound like your pickup ventures are doing too well if you can't even give them away, is it a business or a hobby?

If it's a business, do you advertise?, have a website (at least)?, hang out with working players?, visit music stores and press-flesh?, etc. It's hard for "customers" to buy from you if they don't know you exist.

Brad, it's more an issue of where I can put limited my time for maximum effect. I'm putting my own pickups in all my new basses and the results are being very well recieved. Trying to please every committed P and J bass player is a whole different kettle of fish. I worked closely with 4 different, Fender-playing pros and each of them ended up with a different combination of magnets, wire and turns# before they were satisfied. These are fussy players who can have any pickup they want and only want to pay something better than anything they've heard before. I'd love to be able to offer that kind of attention to customers but they have to pay for the privilage. There is no one best pickup, every bass is different. I don't have time to do endless combinations for a few $/hour. Someday I'll develop a few firm models and toss them up on my accessories site. Right now all I have time for is blackwood bridges, knobs, switchtips and trem blocks. That fad too will pass.

[RedHouse]

Brad, it's more an issue of where I can put limited my time for maximum effect. I'm putting my own pickups in all my new basses and the results are being very well recieved. Trying to please every committed P and J bass player is a whole different kettle of fish. I worked closely with 4 different, Fender-playing pros and each of them ended up with a different combination of magnets, wire and turns# before they were satisfied. These are fussy players who can have any pickup they want and only want to pay something better than anything they've heard before. I'd love to be able to offer that kind of attention to customers but they have to pay for the privilage. There is no one best pickup, every bass is different. I don't have time to do endless combinations for a few $/hour. Someday I'll develop a few firm models and toss them up on my accessories site. Right now all I have time for is blackwood bridges, knobs, switchtips and trem blocks. That fad too will pass.

Well that certainly is a different story than "...it's hard to even give away pickups to people you know let alone find people who will pay for them".


So I'm having trouble resolving your first post against the second, are you trying to say that you're so busy rewinding for your four picky clients that you can't find paying customers?

Time management is a skill for sure.

It's much easier if you've done your homework before the client is ready. Doing enough winds and keeping accurate records of your results you really shouldn't have to "do endless combinations for a few $/hour" assuming you've already paid-the-dues and wound enough combinations to achieve good, specific records of repeatable results. Even if you did 5 winds for those 4 clients that's only 20 winds, hardly enough to build a database of winding specs but a good start and you won't have to go through it all again next time you're asked for that tone.

IMHO with custom winding the whole "endless combinations" thing is usually caused from either not nailing down the needs of the individual up-front ...or... not knowing how to get what they are asking for. Not nailing it down is fixable by better communication and defining expectations, not knowing how to get there will require some R&D time but that burdon is on the winder. Can you really complain about $/hour you invest in yourself?.

[David Schwab]

Yep, that exactly right, the info is all over the place. I have to read all threads to understand what in the world is going on with this and it's still not 100% clear LOL. Definitely, it would be nice all the relevant info in the first post.

Yeah, I had to hunt for it too. I guess I'll have to fix that.

[David Schwab]

Brad, it's more an issue of where I can put limited my time for maximum effect. I'm putting my own pickups in all my new basses and the results are being very well recieved. Trying to please every committed P and J bass player is a whole different kettle of fish. I worked closely with 4 different, Fender-playing pros and each of them ended up with a different combination of magnets, wire and turns# before they were satisfied. These are fussy players who can have any pickup they want and only want to pay something better than anything they've heard before. I'd love to be able to offer that kind of attention to customers but they have to pay for the privilage. There is no one best pickup, every bass is different. I don't have time to do endless combinations for a few $/hour. Someday I'll develop a few firm models and toss them up on my accessories site. Right now all I have time for is blackwood bridges, knobs, switchtips and trem blocks. That fad too will pass.

Yeah, I suppose if I were building basses full time I'd have no time for selling pickups.

One key thing I think is avoiding having to do custom winds like that. I have been doing it, but I'm about to stop. And there's so many Fender style pickups on the market that I wont go near that market. I'll make pickups in those shapes, but trying to do the vintage type pickups seems redundant.

Developing firm models is the way to go.

[David Schwab]

I missed NAMM this year, picked up a bad cold/flu which had me down, oh well.

I've never been to NAMM. Maybe next year.

Time management is a skill for sure.

That's for sure. And I'm not great at it. For instance, why am I sitting here reading this when I have pickups to wind!

[David King]

Brad, thanks for your always excellent advice. I'm sorry my first response was flippant. As DS points out there are a lot of people winding "vintage style" bass pickups. The wholesale prices are very low, right around $30 per pickup for J pickups. That doesn't leave a lot of profit margin if you aren't prepared to make and sell large numbers of pickups. I think a lot of folks are looking at pickup winding as an easy money maker. In one way that's great to have a lot of new faces and new ideas coming out but it also adds a lot of "noise" that the serious shopper has to wade through when coming to a decision about what pickups are going to be right for them. I think the tendency is that too many pickups that aren't up to snuff can give the whole boutique pickup industry a black eye. As the customer's chances of getting burned by bad decision increase it's going to make it harder for all the winders out there to make a living. As you pointed out it takes a serious time investment to "pay your dues" and you need to be committed to it i.e. not have two other full-time occupations.

Your point about good communications is absolutely correct and obviously we are not all created equal at expressing and or interpreting other musician's wishes. As a bass builder with over 20 years of experience know this all to well. It's not as if we could instantly agree on a consistent vocabulary for describing sonic attributes when there are so many important factors in the sound. FX I work with one player who has a string endorsement so i have to wind to his expectations regarding what his pickup should sound like with those strings even if I know that those strings are garbage. String have a huge effect on how a pickup is going to respond, as do cables, preamps, and everything else down the signal chain including the player's ears and how much destruction they've suffered.
I only wish it were as simple as writing down the formula and ascribing precise descriptors in a reference notebook. That's only a start.

[mkat]

That's for sure. And I'm not great at it. For instance, why am I sitting here reading this when I have pickups to wind!

Possibly because work / life balance is also a necessity. You need some time for virtual comms, it's become ingrained

[RedHouse]

...it takes a serious time investment to "pay your dues" and you need to be committed to it i.e. not have two other full-time occupations. ....

Yeah, that's why I was throwing suggestions, having three full time jobs myself I find time management a must.
(and yes David S, I all too often ask myself why I spend so much time on this and other forums)

There is an old adage that just cannot be avoided; "You get what you pay for .... and you pay for what you get" but yes, when price point is the issue, well I just say no and suggest they go to Guitar Center or eBay and buy some cheep-china pickups. When their instrument sounds like a Squire, they'll get wise.

[-Elepro-]

for who asked by PM.... here's the tensioner at work

[-Elepro-]

new user manual... now with some tips for mechanics....
link in my signature....

[David King]

Hi Elepro,

Thanks for posting the new manual, it looks great and the mechanics drawing are very inspiring. I particularly like the limit switch setup with screw threads for fine adjustment, very intuitive. If I ever get my attic insulated this is the next item on the free-time list.