Some Customers...WTF

[Bruce Johnson]

When I get customers like that, I give them what I call the "one time buyout". I have them send the product back with no questions or arguments, and I politely refund their money. But that's it. I'm finished dealing with them. I don't tell them that, but I'll politely refuse to ever sell them anything else. I don't ever allow myself to get sucked into trying to make them happy by sending replacements or customized units. It will never work; they'll just keep milking you. My years of business has taught me when to smile and walk away from a bad deal.

[StarryNight]

I'm realizing the value of return customers and how important they are in getting word of mouth business as well as a chance to develop ideas that are based on other people's needs and not just my own. I'll usually take phone calls from them and even try to futher the relationship. I have a hard time satisfying players with heavier musical tastes so I tend to shy away from that kind of business. I guess I can't be all things to all players.

B2B customers can be a mixed blessing (i.e. other luthiers). I find they like to request "something different" or unique sizes that take time to make.

[kevinT]

When I get customers like that, I give them what I call the "one time buyout". I have them send the product back with no questions or arguments, and I politely refund their money. But that's it. I'm finished dealing with them. I don't tell them that, but I'll politely refuse to ever sell them anything else. I don't ever allow myself to get sucked into trying to make them happy by sending replacements or customized units. It will never work; they'll just keep milking you. My years of business has taught me when to smile and walk away from a bad deal.

That is what I'm thinking.

Maybe we should create a "Bad Customers" list and have it available to all pickup makers so we can check it before selling to a specific customer. It might be the same guy who is going to each maker and pulling the same stuff... lol

[jason lollar]

its funny how many ways there are to do business- I have two phone lines- we will take just about any phone call but I can say I will steer the conversation and keep it on track and let people know I cant give you a half hour explanation or write 20 pages of email describing intracate pickup behavior.
I have a 30 day return/ exchange policy on standard winds as long as they are returned as new- i will not rewind it until you like it. On the other hand if I dont think its what you want I wont sell it to you and I may even refferr you somewhere else which almost never fails to impress people and they come back later and buy something.
I will not take custom one of a kind items back or exchange them. If you want me to build an odd size pickup with unique features its yours.
Once in a great while I find- screw it, give the guy his money back because hes never going to be satisfied but that is so rare I just write it up to experience. We all develop a pretty good sense when something is funny about a transaction or request- believe what you know.
Service and availibility has been a huge asset for how I do business- I will even design schematics for people if they need it. I bend over backwards and jump through numerous hoops and spend alot of my time talking to people and its still profitable for me and I have alot of super happy and loyal customers- its a win win situation.

[David Schwab]

That's very good advice Jason. I do something similar. I only give a refund on like new returns, and there is no returns on custom orders. I've only taken calls a few times, but I do a lot of email correspondence.

So far I've never had a return, but then I'm just doing this for a few years now.

[kevinT]

I'm thinking what will also help is putting your return/exchange and Warranty policies on a small label and attach it to the box. My policies are on my website but most folks don't go looking for that sort of thing. With it spelled out on the box, it's in their face. Also stronger language might help. Stating that no refunds or exchanges will be given if the pickup is altered in any way with no exceptions may help.

[LtKojak]

Maybe we should create a "Bad Customers" list and have it available to all pickup makers so we can check it before selling to a specific customer. It might be the same guy who is going to each maker and pulling the same stuff... lol

Just what we need... another "secret black list"!

This is so wrong in so many levels I can't even find a starting point to rant!

[Zhangliqun]

E-mail to me is the best form of communication. I agree phone calls tend to waste a bit of time. But there are times when I'm just in the mood to talk guitars whether over the phone or somebody who just shows up and brings their guitar. It can sometimes get a little lonely working alone in the shop all day.

As for refunds and such, I guarantee a refund if the pickup just flat-out doesn't work for the customer's tastes but try to steer them toward a free tweak, which I also guarantee. I also guarantee that when they send it back for the tweak, I'll drop everything and do the tweak right then and there because I figure they waited long enough the first time.

I don't have a hard statute of limitations for refund, +/-45 days is a rule of thumb for me. Even there I take it on a case by case basis.

I'll even refund odd custom jobs because I'm such a made-to-order guy that refusing to refund one of these would mean I could theoretically justify refusing refunds on about half the pickups I make, as about half are at least slight variations on listed models.

As for making a pickup that I don't think will work for what the customer is asking for, I will tell them up front, sure I'll make it -- after extensive attempts to convince them that their idea just isn't going to work -- but as Jason said, if you don't like it, you're stuck with it. That's the one instance where I'll refuse a refund. Of course, these are mostly teens and immediate post-teens.

The curious thing is the other end of the spectrum where some customers, even repeat customers, will throw a twist at me that's pretty tame, not difficult at all, and will work for what they want, and be apologetic about it as if they're out of line by daring to suggest it.

[Possum]

I think if you'll only be doing this for a few years, you probably ought to offer full refunds, as long as they are unhappy with the product. There's so much to learn and eventually a customer is going to get something from you that just isn't working that well. Over a long period of time though, your product line gets the bad stuff weeded out or redesigned and you just don't get unhappy customers except rarely, and by then you can usually make an adjustment and make them happy. One big stumbling block with the average customer is most of them are playing inexpensive guitars and the wiring harnesses in 99.9999% of these are going to make anything sound like crap. I just about won't sell my high end buckers unless their wiring harness is top notch, no crap plastic wire or clunky computer connectors in there to suck tone. One reason I don't offer refund now besides no one really wanting them is I live on a real short rope and can't really afford to return the money. All the money I get goes right back into parts and survival needs. If you do this for a living you need to have a substantial stock built up to carry through lean times as well.

[kevinT]

Just what we need... another "secret black list"!

This is so wrong in so many levels I can't even find a starting point to rant!

Do you really think I am serious?

[Gibsonman63]

It makes me think of the Sienfield "Soup Nazi" episode.

[David Schwab]

It makes me think of the Sienfield "Soup Nazi" episode.

No pickups for you!