Epi humbucker- Upgrade or replace?

[rjb]

Hi folks,

I'm a "pre-noobie" who's been lurking here a while, gleaning information to rebuild an early Peavey T-60 "toaster" pickup and getting overwhelmed by discussions of magnetic flux, eddy currents and so on.

But that's another story. I've also got a fairly recent Epiphone Dot with stock pickups, electronics, wiring, and patented "lifeless" tone which I'd like to resuscitate. Given limited financial resources, which of these choices would you advise for the wisest, most effective use of my cash?

1.) Cut slots in the pickup covers to reduce eddy currents; replace backplates with nickel-silver versions from Mojo Music @$7 ea.
2) Replace backplates @$7 and covers @$10 for NiAg with nickel plating from Mojo Music.
3) Replace pickups with Guitar Fetish "Vintage 59s" with nickel covers @$38 ea.
http://store.guitarfetish.com/v59niclalpah.html
4) None of the above (please explain).

Thanks,
rb

[David Schwab]

To make the original pickups better, you need to rewind them and probably replace the magnets too. And that might not do much. I'd just replace them unless you feel like experimenting.

I had an Epiphone Sheraton II come to me with similar complaints. I replaced the pickups, and also the bridge, tailpiece, and tuners. I wasn't making pickups at the time so we used Duncan Alnico IIs. That guitar sounded 100 times better. The wood working is not bad, but the parts suck.

[LtKojak]

4) None of the above (please explain).

I think Epi p'ups are the worst stock p'ups in any guitar of that price range.

Having said that, you can make'em "usable" if you care to do the following:

1) throw away the cover.
2) melt all EXCESS wax.
3) change the baseplate.
4) change the polepiece screws.
5) change the magnet.

Measure your p'ups. If the neck one reads over 8K, don't bother modding it, just get a good neck p'up.

I've had three of those that came out of a G-400 Custom. I've converted'em into three bridge p'ups, as they measured 8.35K, 8.6K and 13.9K. They turned up ok with AlNiCo 8 magnets, even though they were a bit on the dark side when used clean; they were alright with moderate to high gain.

Then you gotta change the harness, use good CTS 500K pots and .022 600v Orange Drop Caps.

This video shows what you're going to face doing this job, which is not the easiest for a newbie.

http://www.mojotone.com/iMojo-Videos...e-335-Assembly

HTH,

[David Schwab]

Then you gotta change the harness

That's a very good idea.

use good CTS 500K pots

Or any good brand of pots.

and .022 600v Orange Drop Caps.

Why? Any good cap will work. There is nothing special about those, and I have been told they absorb moisture!

I use metal film box caps.

[rjb]

Thanks for the info, David. Since I doubt a rewind with my Singer Featherweight winder (with klutzomatic finger tensioner/wireguide) would improve the situation, I guess I'll be shopping for p'ups. I'll look into the Duncans. I'm also considering a neck pup with some P-90 vibe (I like "vintage" country and rock- and, yes, I know a Dot isn't an L-5, Super 400, or Byrdland) with the option of less SC noise; thought the GFS Dream 180 might fit the bill for a modest sum (Dream 180 Vintage-Voiced Humbucker White Pearl). They market it as a Filtertron/PAF hybrid, but some reviewers say it sounds like a big, fat P-90.

I'm sure this isn't what you had in mind, but I have replaced the bridge and tailpiece with an Epiphone "Bigsby" (no longer available at MusicYo for $40) and a roller bridge. Other than weight at the headstock, I don't understand how new tuners would change the sound. But, having played banjos with friction peg tuners, any mechanical tuner seems "good enough" to me.

[rjb]

Thanks for the information, Lieutenant! I think the video will be quite helpful.

One question: What is the harm of EXCESS wax? Some people (including Lindy Fralin, I think - but can't swear to it without checking) advocate submerging covered pickups in melted wax "until no more bubbles come out".

[rjb]

Will do on the harness change.

I was gonna ask where to get "good" CTS pots. The last pair I bought, one was tight & scratchy and the othery was loose & wobbly. I generally buy Bournes pots from Mouser.

Ceramic discs can cause ugly non-linearities (I've seen the pics!), but the Dot stock caps are not ceramic discs. My question is why 600V Orange Drops? We're dealing with a signal on the order of 1V; if the circuit sees anywhere near 600V while I'm playing the guitar, I've got a lot more to worry about than bad tone!

I've used Orange Drops, Mallory 150s, RS gumdrops in a pinch - more based on geometry and convenience than technical considerations; always connect the "outer foil" lead to ground, when possible. I haven't used box caps since Dad used to bring them home from Bell Labs (guess I had a priveledged childhood!).

[RedHouse]

...Then you gotta change the harness...

Hey now, that's what our resident PAF'ologist said in a thread some time ago.
(t'was Possum)

...My question is why 600V Orange Drops?...

You don't need 600V caps, but OD's don't come any smaller IIRC.

[soundmasterg]

That's a very good idea.



Or any good brand of pots.



Why? Any good cap will work. There is nothing special about those, and I have been told they absorb moisture!

I use metal film box caps.

Whoever told you Orange Drops absorb moisture was smoking something. They are large because they are film/foil caps rather than metallized film, and they come in polypropylene and polyester versions. The only thing special about orange drops is that they are film/foil, which is somewhat uncommon these days and does affect the sound, but in a guitar, there isn't any point. I mean they will work fine and sound good, but any good quality cap will also work just fine.

Greg

[David Schwab]

I was gonna ask where to get "good" CTS pots. The last pair I bought, one was tight & scratchy and the othery was loose & wobbly. I generally buy Bournes pots from Mouser.

There you go. I have never bought a CTS pot. They are OK, but I don't see why people keep naming them as something to get.

Ceramic discs can cause ugly non-linearities (I've seen the pics!), but the Dot stock caps are not ceramic discs. My question is why 600V Orange Drops? We're dealing with a signal on the order of 1V; if the circuit sees anywhere near 600V while I'm playing the guitar, I've got a lot more to worry about than bad tone!

I've used Orange Drops, Mallory 150s, RS gumdrops in a pinch - more based on geometry and convenience than technical considerations; always connect the "outer shield" lead to ground, when possible. I haven't used box caps since Dad used to bring them home from Bell Labs (guess I had a priveledged childhood!).

None of that stuff matters for a guitar tone control, just the value of the cap.

[LtKojak]

Will do on the harness change.

I was gonna ask where to get "good" CTS pots. The last pair I bought, one was tight & scratchy and the othery was loose & wobbly. I generally buy Bournes pots from Mouser.

I use'em because of the 70/30 smooth taper. Never got any scratchy or faulty one in over ten years of guitar teching. I use the 600V ODs because they sound good and cost the same as the smaller ones. And both are very-well known brands that'll keep the value of your instrument. Bourns are good, but cost twice the CTS and are very difficult to get here in Italy. Both products I use are the best you can get for your money here, so it's my experience talking. If you come from an EE background I don't see the point in asking the things you already know.

[NPB_EST.1979]

I often thought about rewinding some gold covered Jay Turser humbuckers (korean) just to rewind and take notes on the wiring & construction. I've just finished my first couple single coils, and the directions on how to wire a humbucker is drastically different.

I read on updating the Epi humbucker to replace the screws, why? Why isn't rewinding and replacing the magnet enough?

[David Schwab]

I often thought about rewinding some gold covered Jay Turser humbuckers (korean) just to rewind and take notes on the wiring & construction. I've just finished my first couple single coils, and the directions on how to wire a humbucker is drastically different.

Get one of these to practice on:

STEWMAC.COM : Humbucker Kit

I read on updating the Epi humbucker to replace the screws, why? Why isn't rewinding and replacing the magnet enough?

Different steel alloys sound different.

[NPB_EST.1979]

Get one of these to practice on:

STEWMAC.COM : Humbucker Kit



Different steel alloys sound different.

Yup, I got two of them.

[David Schwab]

Yup, I got two of them.

You can make much better sounding pickups than the Epis with those kits.