Come ON!!

[SkinnyWire]

Here are the dimensional specs. Something of higher quality would always be welcome.

[Joe Gwinn]

Here are the dimensional specs. Something of higher quality would always be welcome.

What was the original source of the table on fillister-head screw dimensions? It looks like it ultimately came from ANSI B18.6.

Although not covered in the ANSI spec, we probably also want to specify the crown radius and center location, and the maximum taper on the sides. The tolerance on the A diameter allows for considerable taper.

The control drawing should specify that the dimensions are to be in accordance with ANSI B18.6 for a 5-40 slotted Fillister screw, with the following exceptions: <list, including max taper, crown details, and slot details>. The drawing also needs to say that visual appearance of the head is important. I think we also needed sharp (cut, not rolled) threads, to better grip plastic bobbins.

[SkinnyWire]

It looks like it ultimately came from ANSI B18.6.

That is correct. I agree, even armed with these one might want to make certain stipulations.

[Joe Gwinn]

That is correct. I agree, even armed with these one might want to make certain stipulations.

Let us start to collect the requirements. I'll write a draft control drawing, and put it up on my website for all.

[NightWinder]

A little off topic, but Joe....I really think you inherited your grandfaters brain. I was blown away that Schwab dug up that photo. Whats even more interesting, is how perfect and clear the photo is. I read all your posts BTW.

[Possum]

screw specs...

hmmm, requirements for pole screws, now thats going to open up a can of worms. Every small measurement is going to be a personal preference and affect the final tonality the screw produces along with the rest of the pickup. There really isn't one ideal screw specification. Are you shooting for PAF screws, or more modern type specs? Thread cutting? Alloy? Extra deep head? One's pole screws can easily become one's own ally in producing your own signature tones. Even Guitar Jones's screws have their uses. On my own screws I stayed a little under PAF head diameter forseeing some problems with them fitting in the covers and bobbins I use, and sure enough this was a good call, bobbin with new screws inserted have to be pushed fairly hard to pop them into the covers, a couple thousandths more and it might have been a disaster. After all just about every pickup bobbin and cover part most of us have access to are cut for metric size screws. If anyone is interested I can scan and post a fillister screw head spec sheet from 1962 here on the forum, its American Standard B18.6.3

[Joe Gwinn]

hmmm, requirements for pole screws, now thats going to open up a can of worms. Every small measurement is going to be a personal preference and affect the final tonality the screw produces along with the rest of the pickup. There really isn't one ideal screw specification. Are you shooting for PAF screws, or more modern type specs? Thread cutting? Alloy? Extra deep head?

Yes, all true, but still there does seem to be a great deal of commonality. And supply problems. With a couple of base standards, people would have a fallback, even if specfial variations are used. And, one can always take the standard spec and attach a list of exceptions, so only the stuff one cares about varies.

One's pole screws can easily become one's own ally in producing your own signature tones. Even Guitar Jones's screws have their uses.

Yep, but not everybody wants to do this.

On my own screws I stayed a little under PAF head diameter forseeing some problems with them fitting in the covers and bobbins I use, and sure enough this was a good call, bobbin with new screws inserted have to be pushed fairly hard to pop them into the covers, a couple thousandths more and it might have been a disaster. After all just about every pickup bobbin and cover part most of us have access to are cut for metric size screws.

I'd bet that the covers and bobbins are really all metric now, even if they claim imperial dimensions. Could you mike a few of the holes?

If anyone is interested I can scan and post a fillister screw head spec sheet from 1962 here on the forum, its American Standard B18.6.3

That's obsolete, as it was revised in 1972 and 1991 (as cited in the 27th edition of Machinery's Handbook, copyright 2004), and probably again after 2000 (~10 year interval). Probably there are screw vendors that have the current spec on their websites.

[Joe Gwinn]

A little off topic, but Joe....I really think you inherited your grandfathers brain.

It's worse than that. Both grandfathers and my father are engineers. What hope was there for me?

I was blown away that Schwab dug up that photo. Whats even more interesting, is how perfect and clear the photo is. I read all your posts BTW.

I didn't realize they were up on the web. Those were the advertising photos, taken by a professional photographer with a big plate camera, probably 8x10. You can probably see the scratches on the metal if you inspect the negative with a magnifier. (No, I don't have the negatives.)

Thanks; I've evaded the killfile yet another day.

[Crumbhorn]

hmmm, requirements for pole screws, now thats going to open up a can of worms. Every small measurement is going to be a personal preference and affect the final tonality the screw produces along with the rest of the pickup. There really isn't one ideal screw specification. Are you shooting for PAF screws, or more modern type specs? Thread cutting? Alloy? Extra deep head? One's pole screws can easily become one's own ally in producing your own signature tones. Even Guitar Jones's screws have their uses. On my own screws I stayed a little under PAF head diameter forseeing some problems with them fitting in the covers and bobbins I use, and sure enough this was a good call, bobbin with new screws inserted have to be pushed fairly hard to pop them into the covers, a couple thousandths more and it might have been a disaster. After all just about every pickup bobbin and cover part most of us have access to are cut for metric size screws. If anyone is interested I can scan and post a fillister screw head spec sheet from 1962 here on the forum, its American Standard B18.6.3

I'd be interested in seeing that specification. Over here in England we are governed by DIN and ISO standards, our nearest equivalent to the fillister head screw is described as the "Cheese Head" which does look cheesy in a pickup.

Anyhow, I have to put a taper reamer throught the holes of every pickup cover to get a fit on 5/40 screw heads - bobbins I have to ream out to 3mm before winding the screws in.

Anyway, in the course of my own humble experience I have found that screws with rolled threads, therefore hard shell, soft core, sound bright. Screws with threads that have been cut have that edge missing-but having said that, work fine in a pickup.

For what it's worth. When I first started out, the rage was for Phat Cats. Reading the market totally incorrectly, I wondered who in hell would stick something that looks like that into a nice looking Les Paul? So I made and sold a few P90's in a Humbucker case that really looked like a Humbucker, but using hardened steel pins under the hood as pole pieces and chopped down Fillisters as dummy pole screws protruding through the cover. These things sound great ( half a dozen currently submerged in spiders webs in my workshop). I found that I could whack the windings on using 44 gage wire and still get some cutting edge. So for what it's worth, soft Iron isn't the end of the story.

But for the mainstream, constants are required and I totally agree we should have a basic, well defined component as a platform for building a pickup. My personal preference is a roll formed screw - thread tolerances are tighter, gives me some edge to the sound and they don't come out bent.

[NightWinder]

Are there any screw companys over there producing quality, that are readily availiable on the web, or is it considered a custom order.

[David Schwab]

I was blown away that Schwab dug up that photo.

I spend way too much time online! When I'm not real busy at my day job, I'm reading about 8 web sites at once... damn tabbed browsing... there went my attention span!

I was actually surprise how many pictures I found of it, if only because I never heard of it, and I love reading about that stuff!

Googling "Joe Gwinn" in general turns up a LOT of hits... is that all you Joe? Lots of math and computer related stuff.

[Joe Gwinn]

Googling "Joe Gwinn" in general turns up a LOT of hits... is that all you Joe? Lots of math and computer related stuff.

Well, I googled myself, and everything on the first three screens is in fact me.

There is also a town in Michigan called "Gwinn". I have no idea what the history is, and there is no relevant family lore on it either.

[David Schwab]

Well, I googled myself, and everything on the first three screens is in fact me.

There is also a town in Michigan called "Gwinn". I have no idea what the history is, and there is no relevant family lore on it either.

Ah, so you are with Raytheon? I always loved that name... light of the gods!

I come up twice on the first Google page, along with a dentist, an oceanographer, and a politician. I always found that odd since it's not a very common name.

The dentist required me to hyphenate my domain. Dammit!

[Crumbhorn]

Are there any screw companys over there producing quality, that are readily availiable on the web, or is it considered a custom order.

There isn't much left of the fastener industry left over here. Screws such as these that don't conform British, ISO or DIN standards are either imported or manufactured by suppliers geared up for the aerospace/automotive supply chain. I was quoted 30c. each based upon a 5,000 batch.

[Tonerider]

Hi,

You cant tell the carbon content via that picture as our screws are nickel plated. Comparing Gauss levels at the screw head with a Bell Gaussmeter I get the same reading on our screws as on the Gibson screws that came with my historic Les Paul - so I think we are very close to the PAF steel.

Andrew C.