Come ON!!

[Possum]

"obsolete" screw specs

Uh you missed the point there Joe, when duplicating screws from 1959 having a 1962 spec sheet is quite valuable. Actually it looks like most of the specs are the same anyway as the chart posted here.

I'm not real sure measuring guass will tell much about carbon content, I may be wrong, I'll have to do a little test tonite on 3 different grades of carbon if I have any damn time, and see what happens. More later on that.....

[Possum]

signature screws :-)

Also forgot to mention that having one's own designed screws IS an important thing, I'm sure Tom Holmes would take objection to anyone copying his screws that he personally makes I'm told. When I had my scews made I sent 3 different samples of different vintage screws, everyone of them radically different from the same ol' humbuckers. I pointed out I want this one thing from one set and this from a different set etc. etc. and came up with my own preferred spec screw. The sonic differences between different screws I'm discovering are thing that don't obviously show up on the Extech either. Head size is real important in that regard and easy to hear the difference between a metric small head screw and a bigger vintage type screw. There isn't much of a measurable difference between 1018 and 1022 alloys on the Extech but it is noticeable with ears. Wish I had more sophisticated test gear....

[Joe Gwinn]

Uh you missed the point there Joe, when duplicating screws from 1959 having a 1962 spec sheet is quite valuable. Actually it looks like most of the specs are the same anyway as the chart posted here.

I don't think that the dimensions of slotted screws changed. What changed was the addition of philips heads. But screwmakers will cling to the current specs, so we will need to cite (and perhaps take explicit exception to) the current versions of the specs.

I'm not real sure measuring guass will tell much about carbon content, I may be wrong, I'll have to do a little test tonite on 3 different grades of carbon if I have any damn time, and see what happens. More later on that.....

Gauss tells you almost nothing about carbon content. There is no good way to tell 1015 from 1025 mild steel using home tools. Electrical iron can be suspected if the steel is very soft, such that screw slots instantly mangle when the screw is driven, but this is still pretty subjective.

One can tell carbon ranges apart by heating the piece to a red heat and dropping it into cold water:

No hardening effect (files very easily): mild steel, ~1018

Some hardening effect (can be filed, but it's noticeably tougher stuff): tough carbon steel. ~1040

Glass-hard (a file skates, and will be ruined if you try too hard): high-carbon tool steel: ~1090 (or up to 1.5% carbon)


So, if it's necessary to tell mild steel alloys apart, ask a steel distributor to use their instruments to make the determination.

[kevinT]

Let us start to collect the requirements. I'll write a draft control drawing, and put it up on my website for all.

The fastener company that i'm using is providing/creating a draft control drawing of my screw for a $25 fee. I am signing off on it before they begin work.

Folks that are getting screws custom made should ask their fastener company if they can create a drawing if they can't provide an actual sample screw. Its cheaper that way....control drawings from private drafting companies can range from $200 to $300 from my inquiries.

After what Wolfe and Dave went through with their screws and also taking into consideration Joe's advice, the extra $25 is well worth it.

[SkinnyWire]

The fastener company that i'm using is providing/creating a draft control drawing of my screw for a $25 fee. I am signing off on it before they begin work.

Folks that are getting screws custom made should ask their fastener company if they can create a drawing if they can't provide an actual sample screw. Its cheaper that way....control drawings from private drafting companies can range from $200 to $300 from my inquiries.

After what Wolfe and Dave went through with their screws and also taking into consideration Joe's advice, the extra $25 is well worth it.

Who are they?

[kevinT]

Who are they?

The company is North East Fasteners Corp. out of CT. www.nef1.com

I submitted a sample to them and the engineer was able to break down all the characteristics of the screw to give me the specs including the type of steel. He was even able to determine whether it was heat treated.

I have never used them or seen their work yet, so i can't vouch for them at this time. However, I'm going to take a chance and have 25K made. They have a minimum of 15K and their lead time is 8 to 10 weeks.

They're creating a drawing from the sample screw that I submitted for a fee of $25. They will have the drawing and sample present when they do the run so they can check it to ensure that it is what exactly what is specified in the drawing.

My sales person is Lisa Gagnon who has been very helpful.

I will let you know how they turn out when I get them in April or May.

[Possum]

more info

what sample did you submit and what alloy are you going to use?

The screw company Joe recommended used a microscope to analyze the steel samples I sent, these guys have been around so I trust their analysis.

They also told me they can't get electrical iron stock suitable for screw making, so I think this idea that Seth Lover's PAFs used electrical iron is bunk. Seth said soft iron, but what was he talking about, the prototype or the production pieces? He also said alot in what I've read from him that he just used what Gibson had in their stock rooms, I don't really think alot of what he spouted off about had a hard basis in fact, getting vintage samples analyzed is way more important than an interview with a 70+ year old guy's memory :-)

[Joe Gwinn]

The fastener company that i'm using is providing/creating a draft control drawing of my screw for a $25 fee. I am signing off on it before they begin work.

That's hard to beat. And I bet the screw company is happy, because good fences make for good neighbors.

Will you be posting the control drawing? A wide review may help.

Folks that are getting screws custom made should ask their fastener company if they can create a drawing if they can't provide an actual sample screw. Its cheaper that way....control drawings from private drafting companies can range from $200 to $300 from my inquiries.

Sounds about right. It ends up being real work.

After what Wolfe and Dave went through with their screws and also taking into consideration Joe's advice, the extra $25 is well worth it.

For sure.

[NightWinder]

I second that. There is a noticeable difference you can hear (most important), and cosmeticly....theres nothing like a really nice screw to ice the cake.

[NightWinder]

A quick thought: Maybe......you should copy Wolfe's pictures, and send them to the company titled "Things I won't except". He clearly got bent over. Maybe this is too shrude? But it can be a valuable tool when they consider the job, and your expectations. Them knowing your going to be a stickler for quality may help you get some really nice screws. Just a thought. Let us know how they work out. Guys like myself don't mind having 1,000 different screws on hand for R&D. Grab the weapons wisely befor going to the battlefield.

[SkinnyWire]

The company is North East Fasteners Corp. out of CT. www.nef1.com

I submitted a sample to them and the engineer was able to break down all the characteristics of the screw to give me the specs including the type of steel. He was even able to determine whether it was heat treated.

I have never used them or seen their work yet, so i can't vouch for them at this time. However, I'm going to take a chance and have 25K made. They have a minimum of 15K and their lead time is 8 to 10 weeks.

They're creating a drawing from the sample screw that I submitted for a fee of $25. They will have the drawing and sample present when they do the run so they can check it to ensure that it is what exactly what is specified in the drawing.

My sales person is Lisa Gagnon who has been very helpful.

I will let you know how they turn out when I get them in April or May.

Sounds very promising. Sometimes one has to take on a bit of risk like this. I'm anxious to hear/see how it works out for you.

[kevinT]

what sample did you submit and what alloy are you going to use?

I submitted a sample that is used by another pickup maker which I won't name (it's not Holmes). I didn't use a vintage screw. It is 1022 steel. It is metric with a thread cutting capability. I know it isn't vintage correct (especially for PAF sticklers) but i think it is an improvement to that aspect of pickup design (at least mine). It will also aid in the effeciency of the production process....I've determined through a lot of testing.

The screw company Joe recommended used a microscope to analyze the steel samples I sent, these guys have been around so I trust their analysis.

I believe the engineer did something similar. I know he cut open the screw and also did something that took a couple of days to determine the plating (i want to say they soaked the screw in a bath of chemicals or they used some kind of electrolysis process based on some of the things the sales person told me...but don't hold me to it...I don't know)

[kevinT]

I forgot to mentioned I purchased some screws from Ruklic to keep me going until the ones i ordered arrive.

The fillisters that they sent me have flat tops. They had these in stock so i ordered some and didn't have to wait. I don't really care for them, however, they are ok for R & D purposes. They are 1022 BTW.

I'll upload an image of the screw later today.

[Possum]

alloys....

I reread my emails from my supplier, he did make the comment that "soft iron" was probably 1018 back in the 50s, but all the samples I sent he said looked like 1022. The 1018 I got is noticeably softer and even the cut on them isn't as sharp and precise as the 1022 screws. The softer stuff works real nice in bridge pickups.