Single string pickups - 6 of 'em

[David Schwab]

I think the problem with many models of amps, cabs, pickups, guitars, etc., is that the target of the model is not the component over the entire range of its use but rather how it sounds when it distorts.

That's true for the most part.

No matter how good the model is, do I have any right to expect it to sound like a Vox or Marshall through that amp and 8" speaker? In a sense you want any amp and speaker used for such a purpose to be ruler flat and clean so that you ONLY hear the model. But what self-respecting guitar player owns one?

Well you'd have a Vox or Marshall though an 8" speaker as it sounds mic'ed and recorded. Not as it sounds in the room with you.

On my Roland mixer, for any given amp model (there's JC-120, ClnTwin, MatchLd, JMP-Stk, and 5150Ld) there's 12 amp types (clean, dirty, bright, dark, variations of those), usually three gain settings, you usual bass/mid/treble control as well as a bright switch and presence, 12 cabinet types, and often controls for the mic. What these various settings are, they don't say (and the manual is awful and confusing), but you can really get a good vibe of various speaker types and whatnot based on tones you have heard before. Some of the cabs are thin and nasal, some have a big 4X12 thump, some are clean and wide range, etc.

I had no idea this mixer had amp sims when I bought it, but I knew is had effects. It also models microphone types (SM-57, etc.) and even studio monitors, as long as you are using particular Roland mics and monitors. I've never used those.

I have a couple of amp sim plugins. One is the Ampeg SVX plugin, that can model various Ampeg bass amps. I've stated before how much I don't like Ampeg amps, but the B-15 models are OK for getting an amped tone in a mix. It really sounds like Ampeg amps. I have another plug that does a bunch of guitar amp models. In both of these you can mix cabs with heads and so on.

Digidesign talked a lot about how they specifically studied various speakers and cabs, like Vox, Marshall, etc, and even simulate the speaker breakup when you push them hard. They showed a room full of heads and cabs all wired up and stuff. Avid is a big company, so I guess they could afford to get all the amps they wanted to model.

I doubt if you A/B'd a sim to a real amp that they'd sound exactly the same, but Dave Navarro did a live demo and was saying he couldn't tell on playback when he recorded with the plugin and a real amp. The demo did sound really good. So it's getting there...

I've played a Line-6 Variaxe a few times, and the electric guitar models never convinced me, but the acoustic guitars are pretty damn good, as far as sounding like an undersaddle transducer anyway, or maybe mic'ed. It's quite odd playing a solid body and hearing a sitar or acoustic 12-string.

[jrfrond]

Dave, I work on a lot of Variax', and the acoustic versions are really just effects processing of the mono transducer signal. There's Reverb, Compression, and Mic/Body balance, plus an on-board tuner.

The electric versions use individual piezo saddles and each string is separately modeled, but no matter how hard you try not to listen, it ALWAYS sounds like a piezo, but with characteristics from the various guitars applied to it. I've play modeled guitars through modeling amps and just wanted to throw up!

Personally, I don't get what players are hearing, really. It's almost as if mediocrity and "good enough" have set the bar for an entire new generation of musicians. I for one am proud to be old-school. Working in the technical end of this business, I would be the FIRST one to trumpet the benefits of a new product, IF it did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do, but when it comes to the modeling thing, I'm still waiting.

I should hang so long!

[David Schwab]

Dave, I work on a lot of Variax', and the acoustic versions are really just effects processing of the mono transducer signal. There's Reverb, Compression, and Mic/Body balance, plus an on-board tuner.

No, they are using a convolution processor, and the models are based on impulse response samples.

You can't get a 12-string guitar, sitar, or dobro using effects.

This is the same modeling technology used on all the amp, instrument, and even reverb plugins.

All those DigiTech signature effects pedals work this way. They took samples of the guitar tones from recordings, stored them in a DSP system, and are convolved with the incoming audio signal to be processed.

There's a few products out for acoustic guitars that use this technology, such as the D-Tar Mama Bear, and the Fishman Aura Acoustic Imaging Technology.

They recorded different guitars with different mics, did impulse response samples, and then convolve the live guitar's tone to match the recordings.

The problem with these systems is that they need to neutralize the tone of the original piezo signal. Usually a series of filters are used to do this.

It's all about taking one signal and making it look like another.

[ubertar]

Hi, I just made some of these kind of pickups-- one output per string, and was searching around the net to see what else has been done with these, and found this thread.

I just made a few of these recently, and I'm offering them for sale. Here's a couple pics of two of them, a black one and a white one:



And here's a demo clip with every other string panned opposite:
http://www.ubertar.com/creot/stereo.MP3
One side was recorded direct, and the other through an amp and miked. There are no effects, compression, eq, etc. whatsoever.
The output on these is on the low side, but not unacceptably so... the signal to noise is very good, which makes up for that.

These are electromagnetic, not piezo-electric, so there's no bleed between strings. Each coil is height-adjustable.

They're $110 each. If you want more than one, I'll cut you a break. I also have an auction on ebay, starting for less.

I don't know if I'll be back here to check this thread, so if you want to contact me, please email. My email is listed on my website, www.ubertar.com.

Thanks.

[Corvus]

I'm impressed with the separation of the strings. Any chance of getting the individual pickup modules without the single-coil style housing? I need 7 of them for a 7-string guitar design.

[ubertar]

I'm impressed with the separation of the strings. Any chance of getting the individual pickup modules without the single-coil style housing? I need 7 of them for a 7-string guitar design.

Sure, no problem. Same price, too. Email me at paul... at... ubertar... dot... com

[ubertar]

hexaphonic pickups

I finally got around to making a webpage for these. It's http://www.ubertar.com/hexaphonic

[David Schwab]

Here's some of my single string bass pickup coils.

[songwriterjim]

I was directed here from the DIY stompbox forums.

I'm hoping to build a guitar within the next few months (a friend has a nice woodshop & builds custom pool cues with exotic woods).
I plan on using the neck & electronics from an Ibanez G10 strat copy I have & creating a custom body.

What I would like to do is make the guitar specifically for direct recording. I have a Korg D3200 32 track deck.
I want to make 6 small pups, one for each string. They would be diagonally staggered (neck to bridge) to decrease string bleed, I hope.
The guitar will have 6 output jacks so each string will go to its own track/channel on the deck.
It should sound pretty cool in the recordings stereo field when strummed, not to mention the effects I can add to each string.

I've read this thread but failed to see any specs on wire guage, turns, type of magnet, possible pup diameters, etc...
What few single pup pics i've seen are round, why not a slightly longer pup about 1/2" in length to get more windings?
I'm not worried about any slight string bleed, just the ability to get each string onto its own track and pan/manipulate the strings in the stereo field.

[David Schwab]

Reminds me of this (1968 Sekova Grecian):



I used to own one of these.

[songwriterjim]

yep, thats about it!