Challenging and exciting new design needs a guru !

[salvarsan]

While I would not describe the guitar market as "conservative" or unadventurous, let's just say it is VERY benchmark-driven, with the majority of buyers attracted by the highly familiar.

You say "attracted by the highly familiar",
I say "bonehead reactionary".

If I get a Teuffel Birdfish, will I sound like SRV?

[Jag]

A little bit of web searching goes a long way. I beleive Mr. Rubman is legit and I hope he succeeds.

I don't see anything wrong with his proposal either.

[martin manning]

This may indeed be a legitimate consulting job, but the text in the original posting describing a consultation:

We would want the candidate to sign an NDA and review our prints to make suggestions on how we might perfect our design. The initial consultation would be unpaid (so we can see who we are dealing with) but the follow up consultation work (and even the possible manufacturing rights) could be negotiated thereafter.

Does not sound anything like the consultant competency assessment interview suggested here:

None of you know me but I can assure you that amassing dozens of free consultations was not my angle...the "consultation" was only meant to be a brief talk to assess the ability of the designer to accomplish the goal.

No surprise that the original text got the reaction it did and frankly the name-calling response, rather than an attempt to correct the misunderstanding, is a bit unprofessional. There is nothing wrong with using the internet to seek professional design consultation, you just have to learn to use it effectively.

[Chuck H]

OK. Some people seem to want a go at this. Just to defend my position I want to recap as it occured to me.

The OP asked people of expertise and experience to step foreward and tell him how to perfect his design. For this opportunity to tell him how to perfect his design you will not be paid and you must sign a NDA. But... If we do think you are useful we may have you do more work for a negotiated price.

That just sounds so bad that denying it seems even sleazier. A little humility would go a long here but that's not how it went down. So...

Sorry to those of you who are actually interested in this project. That is, I'm sorry I made the OP take his ball and run home because he's so tender. I'm especially sorry to David, who seems very interested in the guitar and wanted to deal from that perspective. The phone number is still there in the OP. If the guy won't take calls from you because your from this thread, well, that's petty and I personally wouldn't attach myself.

[sashua]

I did not "take my ball and run home". I'm simply sitting back and watching some of you make fools of yourselves. You seem to feel some deep seated need to push your foot farther in - as if vindication lies just behind an avalanche of words.

I came to you all looking for help. If my request is offensive somehow then go ahead and delete this thread...but you won't.

You will continue to post about how I arrived here with the intention of preying on the weak willed (as if there were no actual "choice" or "free will" involved), simply to fill your idle hours with the controversy that is missing from your daily life.....sad really.

To drive my point home a bit...there are 17 posts to this thread apart from my own. How many of them are regarding the request in my original post and how many revolve around anything else?

[Ronsonic]

"Where's the shit?"
"Dish it d0od?"

I think maybe the internet might be the wrong place to attract forward-thinking design engineers to a legitimate, paying business proposal.
My apologies to all.

Really, better have a thicker hide than that.

The original invitation was unfortunately worded, but not out of order.

We would want the candidate to sign an NDA and review our prints to make suggestions on how we might perfect our design. The initial consultation would be unpaid (so we can see who we are dealing with) but the follow up consultation work (and even the possible manufacturing rights) could be negotiated thereafter.

That could have been written far more clearly and with more regard for the candidate's position and intellectual property. Take that last sentence and strip out the parenthetical crap (which immediately improves it) and you get a promise that an initial consultation will be unpaid and the assurance that pay for follow-up consultations "could be negotiated." Gee, that sounds inviting.

The guy you're looking for will have pulled that paragraph apart and simplified the equation by the time he gets to the period. He will probably chalk it up, as I did, to sloppy use of language and still shoot you an email but keep it in mind. Others, well, they can do the sums also and may be less professional in their reply. Engineers and technicians aren't famous for their verbal skills, but they work word problems the way normal people figure out if the street light is green.

Anyway, I'm not your guy for the pickup stuff. Electronics, that another thing, PM me if you want to talk active electronics.

[RoadToNever]

Go ahead an shop around 'til you find something that works for you and your project. If anyone is trying to waste youre time don't let it become your problem, It's you're choice in the end.
Good luck!

[Chuck H]

I'm simply sitting back and watching some of you make fools of yourselves. You seem to feel some deep seated need to push your foot farther in - as if vindication lies just behind an avalanche of words.

For starters I resent the implication that I am a fool. I have made my implications to be sure but the worst thing I called you was "tender". And you are if you can't read post 19 and see that it was easy to interpret your OP as I did. It's my opinion that you should be more accountable for this. There are several posts in support of the OP here. The practical thing to do from a business standpoint would be to ignore ME and try to make progress. In that light I'm not the one pushing feet. And as far as words go I've been sparse, hardly an "avalanche". Only one of us is trying to tuck the truth behind words. Whether you are or aren't upstanding has ceased to be the issue because of your reaction. It was easy to interpret the OP as I did. Your over reaction is very telling for me. Transferring embarrassment into anger as opposed to being accountable is a very ugly and unfortunate part of the human condition. If I caught you behaving inappropriately it's not my fault you were doing it, just my observation.

[Alex R]

What Ronsonic said. Except don't PM me .

[Sweetfinger]

A little bit of web searching goes a long way.

It sure does. I remember seeing one of the old guitars on Ebay many years ago when I had lots of disposable income and a "sweet tooth" for odd guitars. It was surprisingly cheap but I didn't pull the trigger on it. I'm not so sure that this "radical design with the potential to shake up everything we know as guitarists" will do better on the second go-around but I wish Mr. Rubman the best of luck. I would certainly fall into that category of player who is more interested in more traditional designs. When is Westheimer gonna come trolling around looking for people to help helm a re-re-release of the Harmony line? THAT's my bag!

[peskywinnets]

Man offers opportunity.

herd mentality suspiscion kicks in.

Some readers wince.

Story ends.

[Mark Hammer]

I've been a beta-tester for a large company that required signature of an NDA, and later provided some free products as a sot of expression of gratitude, although no money changed hands. I've consulted with a boutique manufacturer, and while no money or product changed hands, and no NDA was signed, there was a "gentlemen's understanding". Some product developers are better positioned to engage in the commercial and legal formalities, and others are perhaps too small for that, or let us say "earlier" in their growth cycle. No problem with any of it. I can easily understand why the sorts of promises the developer might make could be constrained.

[chevalij]

Hell, when I try and hire people for new positions it's company policy that they sign an NDA just to proceed with the interview!

Initial post did have the "help me for free" flavor to it, but it didn't deserve the reaction it did.

[Rick Turner]

Why is everyone beating around the bush about the guitar?

It's a Gittler.

I made custom piezo pickups for one about 20 years ago, and it was pretty cool.

Too bad they're so uncomfortable to play, though the aesthetic is amazing.

[sashua]

Correct,
I need to be careful as a manufacturer with a niche product. There seems to be way too much scrutiny over a single sentence that was worded correctly, if hastily. I am offering paid work...plain and simple. There are a lot of time wasters out there and an initial consultation is perfectly apropo and customary in such a situation. I never said what the consultation would consist of but thanks, once again, to man's gift of free will... I think that we can assume that most people would be prudent in such cases. Our head engineer has a doctorate in applied magnetics. Given time we could develop the pickup by ourselves without breaking a sweat. I came here because I believe that there is as much art as science in pickup manufacture and a wider perspective could potentially help us to make something very special instead of something just very functional.