PRS on PAF

[StarryNight]

interesting about this mysterious wire machine he talks about in the beginning.http://link.brightcove.com/services/...id=78350314001

[mondo]

The clip cut out just as PRS was talking about Alnico magnets degaussing over time. He says it's not a myth and that's why alnico II, III, VIII etc were developed. I think he's wrong on that. Unless a pup is over 100 years old the magnetism is going to be at least at 99 percent of it's original strength. Alnico can lose up to 1 percent of it's gauss in 100 years! That is not going to noticeably alter the tonality of a pickup IMO.

[Steve Conner]

Considering how bad PRS's own make pickups suck, I wouldn't pay too much attention.

That is just my personal opinion of the pickups that were in my McCarty. I changed them out for Duncan Alnico 2 Pros, on the recommendation of a forum member here, and it was like a whole new guitar.

[David Schwab]

Considering how bad PRS's own make pickups suck, I wouldn't pay too much attention.

That is just my personal opinion of the pickups that were in my McCarty. I changed them out for Duncan Alnico 2 Pros, on the recommendation of a forum member here, and it was like a whole new guitar.

I second that opinion, as do many of my customers that had me change their stock pickups.

Maybe Smith likes the way they sound? Who knows. I think they are muddy and toneless.

[Mark Hammer]

The clip cut out just as PRS was talking about Alnico magnets degaussing over time. He says it's not a myth and that's why alnico II, III, VIII etc were developed. I think he's wrong on that. Unless a pup is over 100 years old the magnetism is going to be at least at 99 percent of it's original strength. Alnico can lose up to 1 percent of it's gauss in 100 years! That is not going to noticeably alter the tonality of a pickup IMO.

If the magnet is stored in a safe manner, you're no doubt correct. But pickups get put in a variety of "risky" situaions that can jeopardize the field over time. Not all of them, but certainly some of them.

[JGundry]

The copy on the PRS site is a bit misleading about his wire and the machines that make the wire. When PRS put the info on their site I got a bunch of emails asking if my vintage Gibson winder was the same as the one PRS uses. The fact is PRS does not have, use or own any vintage Gibson winders. They are talking about the machine that the magnet wire company used to make their plain enamel. I don't think it is a coincidence that AWC started making plain enamel and at the very same time PRS offered pickups made with their "exclusive" wire. AWC is the remains of a company that supplied wire to Gibson decades ago under a different name.

[David Schwab]

AWC is the remains of a company that supplied wire to Gibson decades ago under a different name.

I thought Gibson used to get their wire from Phelps-Dodge?

[Bill M]

It really doesn't matter if prs is having his wire made by a vintage machine, it is still being made with modern copper, which is not the same as what was used in the 50's, and also the PE coating being used is not the same as used in the 50's. With that said, his wire cannot be 50's correct as everyone is lead to believe. Its only being drawn on an old machine which, sounds to me, has worn out dies.

[salvarsan]

Duuuuuhhhhh, alnico magnets hold their gauss for 100 years.

(winces)
*facepalm*
(squints, grits teeth)

<style:"SamKinison">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!
</style>

Su-u-u-ure they will.

Go look up the definition for canard.

Alnico alloys demagnetize if:

• they are stored too close to other magnets
• they are cut too short relative to their width.

They just do.
You can even force the issue in days, not years.

I have observed this, particularly in old skinny pickups like the Dearmond monkey-on-a-stick.
Wave your gaussmeter over the center two magnets and see for yourselves.
In the absence of testing, how else would you know?

If you have ever wondered why a magnet vendor recommends a minimum
dimensional ratio for Alnico rods, their tendency to self-demagnetize if too short
is a matter of historical fact. 5:1 is a nice length:diameter ratio for A5, and 3:1
for A8.

And, yes infuckingdeedy, the search for new Alnico alloys continued,
not so much for stronger pull but for higher coercivity alloys,
i.e., ones more resistant to self-demagnetization like A8 and A9.

[David Schwab]

It really doesn't matter if prs is having his wire made by a vintage machine, it is still being made with modern copper, which is not the same as what was used in the 50's, and also the PE coating being used is not the same as used in the 50's.

Do we know this? How is "modern" copper different? Same for the oleoresin. I mean varnish is still varnish, right? Sounds like another canard to me.

His wire wont sound any different from anyone else's. It certainly isn't helping the tone of his pickups.

[Rick Turner]

But...the really hilarious thing is all the talk of just how inconsistent PAFs are...which is true...which means how the hell do you even define what a PAF sounds like since they are all over the map. PAF mania is as much a psychological phenomenon as it is anything else. There IS no clear definition of what a PAF sounds like; there are multiple definitions, so how can you make a perfect clone? Are you cloning a blonde or a brunette? Or is she a raven haired temptress or a wild redhead? No, you're just cloning a woman born in the mid 20th century...

[JGundry]

I thought Gibson used to get their wire from Phelps-Dodge?

Phelps Dodge was one supplier among many Gibson wire suppliers.

The variation among vintage PAF's is what makes them fun to clone. There is a fairly wide pallete of great tones. Gibson was so inconsistent with magnets used, resistance and winding machines that there are a lot of choices for the clone maker to offer a wide variety of models with great tones. If there was just one PAF tone it would not be early as much fun to clone them.

[Steve Conner]

No, you're just cloning a woman born in the mid 20th century

Surely this wide variation makes the term "PAF clone" meaningless, except as a sexed-up advertising euphemism for some sort of medium-output vintage sounding humbucker.

(Does it have to have a cover? If someone took the cover off in the 80s, is it still a PAF?)

(Do the old pickups off my PRS fall in the acceptable range of "PAF tone"?)

[LtKojak]

(Do the old pickups off my PRS fall in the acceptable range of "PAF tone"?)

If you ask me, I don't think those p'ups fall into "acceptable" in terms of TONE.

[Bill M]

Do we know this? How is "modern" copper different? Same for the oleoresin. I mean varnish is still varnish, right? Sounds like another canard to me.

His wire wont sound any different from anyone else's. It certainly isn't helping the tone of his pickups.

Possum had some old and new wire analyzed not too long ago, and to sum it up, modern copper wire is more pure than its older counterpart. The PE coating, now, is not a varnish, Formvar is more of a varnish than PE. My understanding is that there were really no EPA regulations back in the 50's/60's and that the chemical composition of the newer PE differs from old PE because of this. Kind of like when we used to have lead in our paint and asbestos in our brake pads, they are still paint and brake pads, but are not the same as the older ones.