Gretcsh Frustrations

[Jukers]

I'm in the process of fixing a customer's 61 Gretcsh Corvette which has a HiLo-tron in it with .3ohms. As I was takin this thing apart I was thoroughly exited with this pickup. It's the most simple way to reuse existing parts for Gretcsh. I love it!! What I'm really trying to say is I would like to find some parts to wind my own pickups like other companies, not just Fender or Gibson. I'm relitively new to winding my own pickups... about 25 under my belt... but all have been Fender or Gibson styles due to the lack of parts. I can't find these parts anywhere!!!

Where can I find pickup parts for pickups other than Fender or Gibson styles??? (Gretcsh in particular, at the moment)

Sorry if this is already a thread. I searched like crazy.

[soundmasterg]

About the only recourse is to see if TVJones has any and will sell them to you. I don't know of anyone else who makes correct Gretsch parts.

Fender and Gibson parts are all over the place because thats what most people play, and what sells. Gretsch was always a second level guitar, and RICs are probably a step down from there too in popularity. The problem with making RIC parts or replacement pickups is that they have always enforced their trademarks on their products as compared to the others, so you run the risk of violating those trademarks and getting sued or getting cease and desist letters from RIC.....in order for them to maintain their trademarks, they have to enforce them, its the law. And they take it very seriously.

You may just have to learn how to make your own parts. It is what pickup makers like Lollar, Wolfetone, Dave Stephens, Fralin, etc., have had to do.

Greg

[David King]

Alternatively you can just buy up all the old, dead pickups you can find. Most repair shops will collect boxes of old pickups and you might be able to talk them out of their collection. Don't be surprised if you get nothing but inferior, import copies, it's a crapshoot but there are bound to be a few diamonds in the rough.

[jason lollar]

there is no where to buy pre made gretch parts- I checked and found one korean company that made a hilotron cover but they wouldnt sell parts- they sell pickups only. Soundmaster is right- you dont see many small companies making what I do- you have to have all the parts made.Its about ten grand to make a stamp for a cover unless you get really lucky.
It never stopped me years ago before I could have some of the parts made for me from making a wide variety of pickups though- make your own parts but if its metal covers- thats tough, I have soldered covers together by hand out of nickel silver sheet and then buffed and plated them but it could take you a day and a half to make two covers.

[Jukers]

The problem with making RIC parts or replacement pickups is that they have always enforced their trademarks on their products as compared to the others, so you run the risk of violating those trademarks and getting sued or getting cease and desist letters from RIC.....in order for them to maintain their trademarks, they have to enforce them, its the law. And they take it very seriously.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you could make just about anything you wanted just as long as you don't sell your product claiming that it is another companies.

For instance I could make a Tele guitar with exact specs, pickups and all, but I couldn't sell it as a "Fender" product. I would still be a guitar built by "Me" in the style of Fender.

Am I mistaken??

[Jukers]

I agree on the making my own stuff POV. I do have a good machine shop just down the street from me but the price thing is an issue. I can get enough parts for pickups to make them for about $10-$20 each with allparts, mojo and tons of other distributers. I think I should just save up an get my self a press, a metal lathe, a break and some machining tools within the next ten years.

I think the puppy in me is saying, "I want more tonal variety now!!!"
My wallet is saying, "Want and need... two different things..."

I'll just have to keep an eye on ebay and some local shops...

[Rick Turner]

You are mistaken. There are tricky things like trademarks on "trade dress" which some companies choose to enforce and some don't and some lost the rights to by not enforcing their trademarks. If you want to push your point, just be ready with the checkbook and a good lawyer. It's not what you'd like to think it is out there...as Jason and I both know all too well.

[big_teee]

You can buy a fender licensed neck and build a parts caster, but can't call it fender.
That's why licensed necks and parts are high.
Same with the Dimarzio double creme colored bobbins.
If you make a double creme colored humbucker and sell it you would be in violation of the Larry Dimarzio Trademark.
We've had that discussion on here at great length about the Trade Mark issue!
It's crazy but it's the law.
Rick is Correct!
Terry

[Jukers]

So am I doing illegal stuff by buying premade pickup parts from allparts and mojo, putting them together, winding them up and putting them in a guitar that I made from scratch, then selling it?? (other than the hardware and electronic parts themselves are from scratch)

Keep in mind, the body and head stock is altered Fender and Gibby guitars, but the design of the pickups are not.

Should I just come up with my own design of pickup and only do that?

I've been reading up some of the other threads and not getting it all the way. Sorry if it's already out there. I would really appreciate if someone would right my ignorance!!

[Rick Turner]

I will depend entirely on whose pickups yours resemble. Fender and Gibson seem to have defaulted on protecting their designs as trade marks. Rickenbacker did not, it would seem. If you try to reproduce any Rickenbacker designs, you'll be consulting a lawyer sooner or later.

Any company making unique pickup shapes or designs would be foolish NOT to try to protect their IP. The fact that some companies defend and some don't is just the way it is. Don't think in terms of legal and illegal, think in terms of how much dough you have for your lawyer's kids' college fund. You could win a case and wind up broke. That's what the big guys plan on. I've been called upon as an expert witness in a couple of design and patent dust-ups, and the whole thing is not a pretty picture. Our legal system is used by the rich to keep their club exclusive, not to promote justice nor fairness

Gibson, for instance, is really weird. You do a dove-wing peghead, you'll get "the letter, even if you don't put the Gibson logo on it. You copy and entire F-5 mandolin, including the peghead shape, and unless you write or inlay "Gibson" on it, you won't get the letter. No, it doesn't make sense. Very little in this world does.

[David Schwab]

Here's a place that has Gretcsh looking pickups, and they sell parts. I don't know how accurate the parts are, but at least they look right.

http://www.gnbpickup.com/product/pro...y=&search_wrd=

They also have that other brand pickup you can't get parts for...

[Rick Turner]

They'll get "the letter" on those if they export to the US in quantities anybody notices.

[Jukers]

Our legal system is used by the rich to keep their club exclusive, not to promote justice nor fairness.

That's the American dream is it not!!! LOL!!!

Thank you Rick, I really appreciate your experience and help. Really I'm just a young man/old kid trying to make a buck doing something I love and learning the whole time. After this, I think I'll just go ahead and stick to pickup stuff I can buy from distributers, fixed 2nd tear pickups, and those of my own.

One of my favorite quotes "The more you know, the more you know you don't know."

[David Schwab]

They'll get "the letter" on those if they export to the US in quantities anybody notices.

Eastwood was using those in a Rick inspired guitar once, and was even selling the pickups. I don't know they got the letter, but they stopped selling them.

[Rick Turner]

John Hall (Rickenbacker owner) is one of the touchiest men in the business when it comes to copies, near copies, forgeries, or even "inspired by" instruments. He also seems to have a nice relationship with his IP law firm...who don't know the difference between a utility patent and a design patent, and who certainly have no idea how pickups actually work. But they get paid to be assholes. I don't. I have to do it for free...