strat and tele bridge pickup angles

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I tried searching, but I couldn't find it for the life of me.

A while ago someone had posted the actual angles for the strat bridge pickup and the tele bridge pickup. It was in a discussion about how they actually aren't placed the same on the instrument. I really wanted that data without putting any effort into it, so here we go with another internet post.

Anyone? David seems to be the unofficial archivist of data...

[Peter Naglitsch]

According to some CAD drawings I have collected over the years (Now actually verified against anything real world stuff out of pure laziness) the angle for a Tele pickup is 14 degrees and a Strat bridge pickup is between 10 and 11 degrees (averaging in at 10.25)

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Thanks! That saved me a lot of time.

[belwar]

I very, very carefully measured a 1953 tele bridge. The angle was 16.7 degrees. The bridge was quite square for a hand made piece.

[Zhangliqun]

I heard 10 for Strat, 15 for Tele. More or less in line with what we've seen in this thread so far.

[Rick Turner]

Obviously it doesn't matter all that much!

[David Schwab]

They sound better if you reverse the angle anyway. That angle makes the treble strings too thin sounding. But that was the sound they were going for back then. But the exact angle doesn't matter a hoot.

[David Schwab]

David seems to be the unofficial archivist of data...

That's called an information pack-rat!

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

But the exact angle doesn't matter a hoot.

Normally I'd agree, but I'm doing something weird trying to compensate for the string spacing, so I wanted the angles for triangulation.

Although, I wouldn't say it doesn't matter without doing a test. I've had a few people do pickup installs too far from the bridge and it ends up sounding like a bright middle pickup instead of a bridge pickup, and I insist I can hear the differences on neck pickups with guitars with 24 frets (the pole pieces no longer can be under the 3rd harmonic node), so while I would say it probably doesn't matter, it wouldn't surprise me that given a good test that I'd hear something. I've often had the famous last words of "it doesn't make a difference" to actually try something and surprise myself.

[David Schwab]

Yeah, moving the pickup closer or farther from the neck or bridge change the tone. There's no correct location, but you can hear it.

I have a bass that I had installed two EMG-40 size pickups right next to each other by the bridge, and now I can move a single pickup back and forth and hear the change in tone.

Here it is with a couple of different pickups I'm checking out.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

David - I think the bigger question would be how small of an increment is perceivable? That might tell us more regarding whether 10 or 15 degree angle would actually make a difference.

Of course we'll never know unless we do it with low impedence pickups on a lathe bed, but I'm not smart enough to get that and obviously would completely miss the point of such an experiment, so I guess your experiment will have to suffice. (*dodges vegetables*)

[Rick Turner]

That "magic 3rd harmonic" neck pickup location thing is complete crap. It only holds kind of true for open notes, and even then, the pickup aperture is so much wider than the node on the string as to make it a moot point. By the way, if you're playing up at the last fret, the bridge pickup will usually be farther away from the end of the string than the neck pickup...

[Mark Hammer]

So here's a query, and I do not intend it in any sort of snooty or impudent way whatsoever.

Many guitars, over the years, had pickups near the neck oriented at angles. Mosrites and Fender Mustangs come to mind right away, but their ranks are added to by the Z-style pickups on G&Ls and some of the old Teiscos and Goyas.

Does pickup angle at that end make any sort of difference? Is any putative difference only the sort of thing that matters within a given fret range, or is it really more of a cosmetic thing?

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Ah, that's what I was waiting for!

I was using the 3rd harmonic as a reference point - more relevant than a physical distance as it is consistent between Fenders and Gibsons given the differing scale lengths. If you had read what I wrote, I never implied that the harmonic itself impacted the tonality of the pickup. Farther from the bridge = more wompy tone every time in my experience. Every PRS, Ibanez, etc that I've played that has to move the neck pickup to make room for a longer fingerboard has had a softer sounding neck pickup.

Mark - I don't know the answer to your question, but I can definitely say that cosmetics is at least half of it. In the case of the Z pickups (as well as P-Bass pickups) the pickup needs to be at an angle so to speak, and the accepted convention is to put the treble side closer to the bridge. I've experimented with this and if you try reversing it, it just looks too weird even though it might ultimately work better. As for the mustangs, no idea. Maybe David can tell us how much he has to move his movable pickup in order for there to be a noticeable difference?

[Rick Turner]

Until you play way up the neck. Mag pickups divide the string by a constantly changing ratio depending on where the player is fretting notes. Guitar players have learned to take advantage of the constantly changing harmonic recipe so if they are playing a lead on the neck pickup, they may start off in first position with that neck pickup in the mellow range of the string division ratio, and then they will go higher up the neck and the tone will literally change. There will be a spot where the fundamental antinode is right about over the neck pickup...the sound will be fat...and then as they go higher, the neck pickup will start emphasizing higher harmonics as it becomes closer to the fretted end of the string than the bridge pickup. The neck pickup shows the greatest harmonic recipe change, and can be exploited for that.

For instance, the Sunrise acoustic magnetic pickup is favored by a lot of slide players. Why? I think because it's position emphasizes a fat fundamental in the region where a lot of slide action takes place...around the middle of the neck.