Otpg game over

[Spence]

Recently a few people have asked me if I can help them acquire some pickups from OTPG.

Well I've tried. I don't make them, or make on them. Now one chap who at this time shall remain nameless, can't wait and is threatening legal action. So it's game over. Don't ask again anyone. Go pay Bobbo's price and leave me alone.

The party's over.

[LtKojak]

Recently a few people have asked me if I can help them acquire some pickups from OTPG.

Well I've tried. I don't make them, or make on them. Now one chap who at this time shall remain nameless, can't wait and is threatening legal action. So it's game over. Don't ask again anyone. Go pay Bobbo's price and leave me alone.

The party's over.

Legal action? Against who? With what grounds? With what proof? Is there a crime being commited somewhere?

I find this laughable, to say the least. You don't have nothing to worry about, Spence.

In my day job, my customers ARE lawyers.

[StarryNight]

if money has changed hands then there is an obligation to follow through on the transaction - or return the money. If not, and there's nothing signed by both parties stating what the parameters are then I don't see a case. But then again I'm an armchair lawyer!

[Spence]

if money has changed hands then there is an obligation to follow through on the transaction - or return the money. If not, and there's nothing signed by both parties stating what the parameters are then I don't see a case. But then again I'm an armchair lawyer!

So what about when the pickups have been sent but not signed for and thus a cheque for the full amount has been sent but not cashed?

[LtKojak]

So what about when the pickups have been sent but not signed for and thus a cheque for the full amount has been sent but not cashed?

If the goods have arrived to destination (US Customs) but not signed, it means they're still somewhere in Customs. If not, after 'bout 30 days they should be coming back to sender.

If the cheque that should've covered the agreed cost hasn't been cashed, the transaction did NOT occurred. At this point, the only one to lose something is the OTPG guy, as the counterpart still have the money in his/her bank account.

I have the feeling I'm missing some info here...

[StarryNight]

I can only assume that the cheque in question is a certified or cashiers cheque because no one these days accepts personal cheques via mail. If that's the case then money is no longer in that person's account and rests with the merchant, who then is obligated to produce the goods for which the money was intended to purchase. The fact that the package has not arrived has no bearing on the conditions of the obligation. I could have burned my tongue on a cup of tea during the transaction and it would have the same impact on the expected outcome. If the merchant cannot produce the goods after the transaction has taken place and does not return the money then he or she is guitly of theft and fraud. If the money is returned then the contract was only fraudulent (in breach of confidence) but compensation still may be claimed on the grounds of pain and suffering due to false promise. The defence might argue caveat emptor which states:

"Under the doctrine of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud." - Wikipedia

the term "defects on property" in this case translates to the "means of delivery" which has caused peril to the product and the seller is not at fault assuming proof of shipment has been established.

like I said before I am not a lawyer! Not only that I barely passed high school and I smell funny. There you go....

[Rick Turner]

Do we really care about this hopelessly hyped InterNet phenomenon, apparently nameless whose identity is cloaked in the "over the pond guy" meme?

I, for one, could give a lesser shit, and anyone sucked in by the hype should refer back to the Romans: Caveat Emptor

This whole thing has been utter bullshit from the get-go. This has been absolutely the worst of the "mojo" promoting PAF jive.

Hey, I could do an unknown dance on Seth's grave and promote it, but I'd be ashamed to do that. I met the man. I knew him to be a gentleman. I also knew him to tell the truth as he knew it, and all the smoke and mirrors of the PAF clone biz simply disturbed him when he was alive. Now I'm sure it's got him twisting and turning in his grave. He told Seymour everything he knew, and you're not going to get closer to what Seth had in mind than what Seymour is doing.

Disclaimer...yes, I'm involved in a biz with Duncan. That said, I speak the truth as I know it.

[big_teee]

Do we really care about this hopelessly hyped InterNet phenomenon, apparently nameless whose identity is cloaked in the "over the pond guy" meme?

I, for one, could give a lesser shit, and anyone sucked in by the hype should refer back to the Romans: Caveat Emptor

This whole thing has been utter bullshit from the get-go. This has been absolutely the worst of the "mojo" promoting PAF jive.

Hey, I could do an unknown dance on Seth's grave and promote it, but I'd be ashamed to do that. I met the man. I knew him to be a gentleman. I also knew him to tell the truth as he knew it, and all the smoke and mirrors of the PAF clone biz simply disturbed him when he was alive. Now I'm sure it's got him twisting and turning in his grave. He told Seymour everything he knew, and you're not going to get closer to what Seth had in mind than what Seymour is doing.

Disclaimer...yes, I'm involved in a biz with Duncan. That said, I speak the truth as I know it.

Rick! Cut the guys some slack!
You never lighten up, do you?
I will say one thing, you are consistent.
I guess I should be quiet, at least your not on my back for the moment.
Peace,
Terry

[Rick Turner]

No slack for bullshit artists.

That's one of the basic rules in my game.

None whatsoever.

Prove it or move it.

Get out of the fucking way if you can't deliver the goods...

[big_teee]

No slack for bullshit artists.

That's one of the basic rules in my game.

None whatsoever.

Prove it or move it.

Get out of the fucking way if you can't deliver the goods...

Did you get all of those techniques out of your own personally Signed Copy of "How to Win Friends and influence People"?
I'm just kidding you. I put up with a large corporation for 42 years.
Not much I haven't seen.
Later,
Rock On!
Terry

[JGundry]

No slack for bullshit artists.

That's one of the basic rules in my game.

None whatsoever.

Prove it or move it.

Get out of the fucking way if you can't deliver the goods...

Rick, you many want to read all of this.

In case anyone is interested OTP guy is a real person. In fact he knows Seymour from long ago. For all I know he knows you Rick. He is a master violin maker and restorer that has also done high end guitar repair and restoration for decades. He is expert in all aspects of was he makes including the pickups. Being a violin maker myself he has been very generous with sharing what he knows with me concerning both violins and pickups. I have exchanged many, many emails with him over the years and there has not been a single detail which he is not willing to share.

So why does this guy stay under cover if he knows what he is doing? Two big reasons. First he had a stroke a few years ago and although he is still able to work he has told me that it is physically exhausting now to do what came with ease before his stroke. Secondly, before the stroke he had more work than he could handle so no need for promotion. After the stroke obviously there is a limit to the amount of work he can take on.

Then why the entire OTP promotion etc.. The fact is Spence is trying to help a friend out by shipping a few orders for him. I think it is really just that simple. There is another party other than Spence that has hitched his wagon onto this OTPG thing who gives a pretty hefty mark up to what he buys from the OTPG. But this guy is not Spence.

On the face of it the OTPG branding looks like total BS. But if you put it in the context above there is really no BS going on. I can vouch for the fact that the PAF style pickups he makes are entirely made from custom tooled parts that are expertly done. I can also vouch for the fact that the guy is responsible enough to have made them in a way that an educated buyer can identify them as a reproduction and not an original vintage piece.

So at the heart of this is a very nice man who has had a stroke and is working though it and still producing amazing, well crafted pickups and musical instruments. But understandably he is limited in his output. Then you have Spence who sees a friend whom he can help out by shipping a few orders for him. I'm sure Spence really just wants a friend see some of the credit and appreciation that he feels is due to him and what better way than having some satisfied customers speaking the praises of what he makes over the internet.

Sorry this was so long but honestly the real OTPG is top notch and absolutely not a BS artist. He works on instruments that are worth millions of dollars and also makes incredible copies of them for their owners. You don't get that kind of work year after year unless you produce the goods.

Lastly I want to emphasize that these pickups are made to look like a vintage PAF but they are totally identifiable as not being vintage if one simply cares to do a tiny bit of research. These pickups are NOT being sold to deceive people.

[Spence]

Rick, you many want to read all of this.

In case anyone is interested OTP guy is a real person. In fact he knows Seymour from long ago. For all I know he knows you Rick. He is a master violin maker and restorer that has also done high end guitar repair and restoration for decades. He is expert in all aspects of was he makes including the pickups. Being a violin maker myself he has been very generous with sharing what he knows with me concerning both violins and pickups. I have exchanged many, many emails with him over the years and there has not been a single detail which he is not willing to share.

So why does this guy stay under cover if he knows what he is doing? Two big reasons. First he had a stroke a few years ago and although he is still able to work he has told me that it is physically exhausting now to do what came with ease before his stroke. Secondly, before the stroke he had more work than he could handle so no need for promotion. After the stroke obviously there is a limit to the amount of work he can take on.

Then why the entire OTP promotion etc.. The fact is Spence is trying to help a friend out by shipping a few orders for him. I think it is really just that simple. There is another party other than Spence that has hitched his wagon onto this OTPG thing who gives a pretty hefty mark up to what he buys from the OTPG. But this guy is not Spence.

On the face of it the OTPG branding looks like total BS. But if you put it in the context above there is really no BS going on. I can vouch for the fact that the PAF style pickups he makes are entirely made from custom tooled parts that are expertly done. I can also vouch for the fact that the guy is responsible enough to have made them in a way that an educated buyer can identify them as a reproduction and not an original vintage piece.

So at the heart of this is a very nice man who has had a stroke and is working though it and still producing amazing, well crafted pickups and musical instruments. But understandably he is limited in his output. Then you have Spence who sees a friend whom he can help out by shipping a few orders for him. I'm sure Spence really just wants a friend see some of the credit and appreciation that he feels is due to him and what better way than having some satisfied customers speaking the praises of what he makes over the internet.

Sorry this was so long but honestly the real OTPG is top notch and absolutely not a BS artist. He works on instruments that are worth millions of dollars and also makes incredible copies of them for their owners. You don't get that kind of work year after year unless you produce the goods.

Lastly I want to emphasize that these pickups are made to look like a vintage PAF but they are totally identifiable as not being vintage if one simply cares to do a tiny bit of research. These pickups are NOT being sold to deceive people.

Actually, Rick, he does know you and quite a lot about you.
But it's OK; say what you like. It'll be here for ever for anyone to see.
Over the years I have found that quite a few of us bull shitters are actually straight as a die decent, hardworking people who are worthy of great respect.
Of course I do want to see OTPG properly valued for his work but I don't want to see people paying a second party twice the going rate for them. I have tried to help people get their pickups directly and at the real price.
I'm not going to do that anymore sorry. A few bad eggs spoil it for the rest.

[Plucky]

So why does this guy stay under cover if he knows what he is doing? Two big reasons. First he had a stroke a few years ago and although he is still able to work he has told me that it is physically exhausting now to do what came with ease before his stroke. Secondly, before the stroke he had more work than he could handle so no need for promotion. After the stroke obviously there is a limit to the amount of work he can take on.

This is close to home. A big fear of mine, as it runs in the family, and is presently happening to family members and friends. All my best to whoever he is, and his family.

A stroke is rarely one of luck.

[Rick Turner]

Sorry, folks, but I have a long standing problem with folks who hide behind handles on-line. It leads to incredibly bad behaviour; it is borderline deceptive; and it promotes a level of bullshit that is just intolerable to me. My friends in the guitar business have no need to prevent others from knowing exactly who they are. We don't need masked Zorros in the guitar biz or our little specialty, the pickup biz...or is it a hobby? Or an obsession? A bit of all of the above.

From my point of view, either state clearly who you are or stay off-line. Anonymity does not really help spread truth, as good as it may be for pseudo-mojo...another pet peeve of mine. And I notice that those who use their real names here tend to be the most mojo-resistant and the most scrupulous about searching for real answers.

Just my oft-stated strong opinions on what I see as the down side of the Internet.

[MacLoud]

Ah! another OTPG thread, it is bound to get messy.................... where is Sam Lee Guy when we need him?