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Asymmetrical Humbuckers

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  • #31
    The problem is that you're trying to make pickup B sound like pickup A. which is going to sound more like pickup A.... pickup A or pickup B? Which is going to taste more like ham........ ham, or spam? Of course it is ham. If you're trying to imitate something, the real thing will always seem more real than the imitations. Not that hard to wrap your head around... so, why does it seem so weird that none of the noiseless strat pickups seem to sound like strat pickups? Because they AREN'T strat pickups! This is why I think pickup makers (and this is strictly my own opinion) spend their time better trying to make noiseless pickups that have their own, useable sound instead of trying to sound exactly like a single coil. The people I know that play stacked pickups or something similar don't do so because they prefer the sound over a regular single coil, they do it out of necessity.

    I have to side with David on this. If you want to play in noisy, cigarette smoke filled rooms all the time with noisy amps, then 60 Hz isn't an issue, but not everyone is a raunchy old blues man. Hat sales alone show that isn't the case. Try playing high gain, through an ultra clean amp, a style of music that requires lots of breaks, or direct into a system. Noise reduction isn't a gimmick.

    Back to topic, where exactly does the high end cancellation come from with humbucking systems? I've always heard that is a matter of harmonics wherein the wavelength is smaller than the distance between the poles, but if that was the case, then stacked humbuckers and split coils would be exempt, and small humbuckers (lil '59, barden style blade pickups) would show minimal change. I seem to remember reading on here somewhere that this was erroneous thinking and I was waiting for the topic to come up again, but I could be wrong.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by FunkyKikuchiyo View Post



      Back to topic, where exactly does the high end cancellation come from with humbucking systems?
      Biggest factor: increased inductance.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Mike Sulzer View Post
        Biggest factor: increased inductance.
        That's what I figured, combined with the fact that there are so many conductive pieces in your average humbucker.

        Assuming the findings of the above winders are valid, how would different winds on each bobbin create more high end, assuming you aren't just reducing the over all windings? Say, instead of 5000/5000 you have 4000/6000. From what everyone is saying the second would be brighter, but I don't follow that. I can see how the notes might have more definition - it is less muddied because one voice stands out more than another, but the brightness aspect is a bit lost on me.

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        • #34
          My understanding is that the close proximity of the bobbins cancels shorter waveforms more than longer ones. If the two bobbins are near identical this phase effect will be more complete. The more dissimilar the bobbins the less complete the phase error. Since the effect is most pronounced in the higher frequencies this is where you hear a change when you lessen the effect.
          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
            My understanding is that the close proximity of the bobbins cancels shorter waveforms more than longer ones. If the two bobbins are near identical this phase effect will be more complete. The more dissimilar the bobbins the less complete the phase error. Since the effect is most pronounced in the higher frequencies this is where you hear a change when you lessen the effect.
            Yes, this is correct. It's also from higher inductance as Mike states, but, that's as compared to a single coil.

            The way to demonstrate the cancelation of shorter harmonics (pretty much the distance between the two coils), is by moving the two coils farther apart. This of course means you need to use separate magnets. As you move the coils farther away from each other, the frequency of the notch changes. Then you get the familiar Strat "out-of-phase" tone.
            It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


            http://coneyislandguitars.com
            www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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            • #36
              +++ Yes the effect is audibly demonstrated with strat type arrangements. Just thinking out loud, but it might be fun to set up a pair (or trio) of p'ups on a sliding rail system so you could "tune" the effect.
              "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

              "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

              "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
              You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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              • #37
                In general I'm a big fan of well-designed hum-cancelling systems. However, I must say that I've been consistently fooled by what I thought were very good sounding single-coil format hum-minimizing designs, such as the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage/Fender Noiseless Vintage, etc. It wasn't 'till I took them into familiar contexts that I found a frustrating lack of real transient impact and body that felt kindof like I was using one gauge lighter strings.

                Bob Palmieri

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