Stainless poles in a PAF

[salvarsan]

I missed this when I first saw it a couple years back -- Gibson uses 416 stainless steel in their 496R and 500T C5 ceramic PAF models.

Pole Piece Material
The pole pieces inside each pickup are made from 416-grade stainless steel – a highly machinable steel that is hardened by heat treatment. It is also known for its resistance to wear and corrosion.

In addition to taking a corrosion-resistant polish, 416 Stainless holds a small magnetic field after hardening, and has a magnetic permeability in the general magnitude of steels.

That bit about polishing means that a nickel plate would be unnecessary.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I'd have to look at one again, but I'd take anything I see on the Gibson site with a grain of salt. Although, if they are that specific, offering the grade as well, perhaps they are correct.

I never liked those pickups, so I guess I know to stay away from it...

[salvarsan]

I'd have to look at one again, but I'd take anything I see on the Gibson site with a grain of salt. Although, if they are that specific, offering the grade as well, perhaps they are correct.

I never liked those pickups, so I guess I know to stay away from it...

The 498 and 500 'buckers have normal winds counts but ceramic magnets, not alnico.

[Sweetfinger]

The 498 and 500 'buckers have normal winds counts but ceramic magnets, not alnico.

....If you consider around 15 K to be "normal". I consider both of those to be high output distortion pickups along the lines of Duncan's JB and Distortion. The 490R is the "vintage" one in the family with a much more usable (IMO), 8K or so.

[salvarsan]

....If you consider around 15 K to be "normal". I consider both of those to be high output distortion pickups along the lines of Duncan's JB and Distortion. The 490R is the "vintage" one in the family with a much more usable (IMO), 8K or so.

Sorry, my error. I spoke too fast.

According to Gibson, the 496R and 500T have 5700 and 7500 winds, respectively.
End user measurements put the DCR's at ~8.5k and 15k.
Running the numbers, you get #42 and #43 wire.

The 496R is close to normal, as you said, but the ceramic magnet makes a big difference.
The 500T is somewhat extreme by the usual standards.

[big_teee]

Sorry, my error. I spoke too fast.

According to Gibson, the 496R and 500T have 5700 and 7500 winds, respectively.
End user measurements put the DCR's at ~8.5k and 15k.
Running the numbers, you get #42 and #43 wire.

The 496R is close to normal, as you said, but the ceramic magnet makes a big difference.
The 500T is somewhat extreme by the usual standards.

IMO the 15k would be normal enough with a milder magnet like you said.
I have a 43ga 13.5k version, that sounds pretty mild, or normal, with the right Alnico Magnet.
Terry

[LtKojak]

With either an A8 or UOA5 mag, the 496R makes and excellent sounding PAFish bridge p'up.

The one I had in my hands had NOT stainless steel polepiece screws.

[Sweetfinger]

I'm a +1 on .. Stainless????
If I had a buck for every rusted Gibson humbucker I've seen, I could buy me a whole new one!
Then again, according to the chart, those are the two models with ceramic mags. Hmmm. Need more information so we can definitively solve this mystery that almost no one is going to care about........
In the public interest, I'll post the Gibson info:
Pickup magnet ohms

490T Alnico II 8.5k
490R Alnico II 8.5k
496R Ceramic 8.6k
498T Alnico V 13.8k
500T Ceramic 14.8k
57 Classic Alnico II 8.5k PAF sticker
57 Classic Plus Alnico II 8.7k PAF sticker
Burstbucker #1 Alnico II 8k PAF sticker
BurstBucker #2 Alnico II 8.5k PAF sticker
Burstbucker #3 Alnico II 8.8k PAF sticker
Burstbucker Pro (#5) Alnico V 802k neck and 8.7k bridge PAF sticker
Dirty Fingers 3 ceramic 16k
P-90 Alnico V 8.8k
P-94R Alnico 7.3k

I've posted it before, but it's still good!

[big_teee]

I'm a +1 on .. Stainless????
If I had a buck for every rusted Gibson humbucker I've seen, I could buy me a whole new one!
Then again, according to the chart, those are the two models with ceramic mags. Hmmm. Need more information so we can definitively solve this mystery that almost no one is going to care about........
In the public interest, I'll post the Gibson info:
Pickup magnet ohms

490T Alnico II 8.5k
490R Alnico II 8.5k
496R Ceramic 8.6k
498T Alnico V 13.8k
500T Ceramic 14.8k
57 Classic Alnico II 8.5k PAF sticker
57 Classic Plus Alnico II 8.7k PAF sticker
Burstbucker #1 Alnico II 8k PAF sticker
BurstBucker #2 Alnico II 8.5k PAF sticker
Burstbucker #3 Alnico II 8.8k PAF sticker
Burstbucker Pro (#5) Alnico V 802k neck and 8.7k bridge PAF sticker
Dirty Fingers 3 ceramic 16k
P-90 Alnico V 8.8k
P-94R Alnico 7.3k

I've posted it before, but it's still good!

Being your posting Stats.
What type and gauge wire in each?
BigT

[copperheadroads]

I think if you have room on a bobbin you would use the larger or largest gauge of wire, to get the number of turns desired
but mixing gauges is on humbuckers gives an interesting result

[Sweetfinger]

That chart is from Gibson. Dunno about the turns/wire type. I asked for that info about ten years ago just to have a general guideline for identifying Gibson "mystery" buckers that crossed my path. My guess is that the people who really care about such things with enough desire to know will(or have) obtained the information and the vast majority of other folks are just not all that interested and probably consider most stock Gibson pickups as something to be replaced. I would not expect much in the way of innovation or sneakiness in Gibson designs. I'm surprised that they make as many different models as they do.
Maybe someone else will chime in and add some wire gauges/turn counts?

[David Schwab]

I tried some magnetic stainless blades (I forget the grade) and felt they were kind of harsh sounding for the application it was used in. I liked the pickup better with low carbon steel blades.

I'd like to try it in some other pickups to see what it does.

[copperheadroads]

My guess
any pickups below 8.8k= awg42
above 8.8k that up to 14k =awg43
above 14k to 16k or 17k =awg44

it is pretty easy to come up with a number of turns using Sweetfingers spec's
you can do a bit of digging ,,,you might find out if any of these pickups have mismatched coils

[big_teee]

My guess
any pickups below 8.8k= awg42
above 8.8k that up to 14k =awg43
above 14k to 16k or 17k =awg44

it is pretty easy to come up with a number of turns using Sweetfingers spec's
you can do a bit of digging ,,,you might find out if any of these pickups have mismatched coils

I thought maybe if he had all those figures, He might have the exact wire.
42 PE Black!
43?
Terry

[salvarsan]

I ran some more numbers.

At low fields (below 1.5 Tesla) Stainless 416 and 430 conduct magnetism better than soft steel and silicon steel.

Given that most pickup magnets never get above 0.1 Tesla at the surface, this is a big deal.

Here is a chart for soft magnetic metals up to ~0.9 Tesla.
The region of interest for pickup makers is way down below 0.1T or 1000 gauss.

There, nickel and M-27 transformer steel are the poorest magnetic conductors while the type 400 stainlesses are best.

This reminds me of diode selection for distortion box clipper circuits in that you didn't care if the parts all turned on by 10 ma current flow because the audible differences occurred in the non-clipping conduction region around 0.1 ma.