Patent on dual blades

[essemfraise]

Has anyone any idea if we can make and sell blades pickups, in standard HB size, without having lawsuit ? BL has a patent on this in the US, what about Europe ?

[David Schwab]

Has anyone any idea if we can make and sell blades pickups, in standard HB size, without having lawsuit ? BL has a patent on this in the US, what about Europe ?

His patent is not for dual blades, but for the rest of the construction of the pickup. There have been lots of dual blade pickups from DiMarzio, Duncan, Barden, EMG (you cant see the blades), to cheap asian brands.

Also that patent was from 1982, so it's expired now. You notice that both the real Bill Lawrence and Bill Lawrence USA make the same L-500. And Duncan has his Dimebucker copy too.
And then you have all the dual rail single coil size pickups.

[essemfraise]

Nice ! I was just a bit surprised how not that much "occidental" PU makers use it on their HB, with visible blades.
Thank you David.

[David Schwab]

Nice ! I was just a bit surprised how not that much "occidental" PU makers use it on their HB, with visible blades.
Thank you David.

Yeah, because they just keep making copies of Gibson humbuckers... over and over again. Do we need a screw and slug bobbin? Not at all. We don't even need adjustable poles. Everything I make uses blades.

[mondo]

So the main reason for having a slug bobbin and a pole bobbin is just a tradition that keeps pickups looking like the original pickups made in the old days? Is there any other practical reason to do it this way other than to avoid re-tooling? I never thought of it this way before but it makes sense. Guitar players are a wierd bunch! It seems like a lot of guitar makers are hesitant to bring fresh ideas to the marketplace because a large proportion of guitar players want the same old same old. I see my Dad falling for some of this Mojo nonsense even though he is a diehard skeptic like myself. He insists that he needs paper/oil caps in his tone circuit!!! It's like a folk religion in some ways.

[David Schwab]

Seth Lover didn't even want adjustable poles. His prototype didn't have any exposed poles. But the marketing people at Gibson wanted them, because Fender had them, so at first he stamped round marks on the cover to look like poles, but they didn't like that. They also wanted adjustable poles because Fender didn't have adjustable poles. This is what Lover said anyway.

So they made one coil adjustable. The other was probably thought to be more for hum cancelation.



Now that we are stuck with Gibson and Fender form factors being some kind of misappropriated "open standard" (kind of like the way the IBM PC became), we just keep seeing the same parts used over and over again. Your average guitarist doesn't know any better. They think that's how pickups look and sound, and they need to sound like their heros, because there is so little originality in music these days.

Guitarist are a weird bunch indeed! Bass payers have traditionally been more open minded, but that's going the way of the Dodo, with so many playing nothing but Fender Jazz basses through SVTs, or some such nonsense. It's vintage this, and vintage that!

[Dude]

Actually, those adjustable pole pieces do serve a purpose. I'm not a professional pickup winder, I'm a*professional guitar repairman who offers pickup rewinding. That being said, I believe adjusting the pole pieces focuses the magnetic field for the specific strings. I came across it when I was working in L.A. and an engineer came to me complaining that all he could hear were the high E and G strings. I figured those pole pieces were adjustable for a reason. Made my adjustments, the guitars were re-tracked, and the engineer was forever grateful. It's now a part of every setup I do. Try it for yourself: strum an open chord and listen to each individual string. Now raise the A, D, and B strings to match the radius of you fingerboard (A, D, and G if you play with a wound G). For some reason, the G string (largest plain string) is always too loud so I leave it flat. This should balance your string-to-string volume but further tweaks may be necessary. This seems to be the same as staggered pole pieces on a single coil.*

Thanks,
Dude

[David Schwab]

Actually, those adjustable pole pieces do serve a purpose. I'm not a professional pickup winder, I'm a*professional guitar repairman who offers pickup rewinding. That being said, I believe adjusting the pole pieces focuses the magnetic field for the specific strings. I came across it when I was working in L.A. and an engineer came to me complaining that all he could hear were the high E and G strings. I figured those pole pieces were adjustable for a reason. Made my adjustments, the guitars were re-tracked, and the engineer was forever grateful. It's now a part of every setup I do. Try it for yourself: strum an open chord and listen to each individual string. Now raise the A, D, and B strings to match the radius of you fingerboard (A, D, and G if you play with a wound G). For some reason, the G string (largest plain string) is always too loud so I leave it flat. This should balance your string-to-string volume but further tweaks may be necessary. This seems to be the same as staggered pole pieces on a single coil.*

Adjustable poles do very little in my opinion, and I find it's never needed. I never have an issue with string balance. On my guitars with adjustable poles on the pickups, I leave the poles flush with the top of the pickup. There are a lot of blade pickups on the market and no one has an issue with them.

The pole pieces on a humbucker are adjustable for one reason; Fender didn't have adjustable poles, and Gibson wanted to one-up them. Also, if you are raising a pole, you are only doing it on one coil and not both. So you are going to change the tone on that string compared to the others.

Staggered poles on single coils were because of the strings that used to be used. What you will find is that on staggered magnet pickups the strings are out of balance. You don't see people having to push the magnets down and re-track their guitars in the studio.

I find it hard to believe that as a professional repairman you never tried adjusting the poles until you were in a studio? I tried adjusting the poles on my first electric guitar when I was 13. Then I put them back flush again.

A little EQ would have fixed those guitar tracks.

[big_teee]

Actually, those adjustable pole pieces do serve a purpose. I'm not a professional pickup winder, I'm a*professional guitar repairman who offers pickup rewinding. That being said, I believe adjusting the pole pieces focuses the magnetic field for the specific strings. I came across it when I was working in L.A. and an engineer came to me complaining that all he could hear were the high E and G strings. I figured those pole pieces were adjustable for a reason. Made my adjustments, the guitars were re-tracked, and the engineer was forever grateful. It's now a part of every setup I do. Try it for yourself: strum an open chord and listen to each individual string. Now raise the A, D, and B strings to match the radius of you fingerboard (A, D, and G if you play with a wound G). For some reason, the G string (largest plain string) is always too loud so I leave it flat. This should balance your string-to-string volume but further tweaks may be necessary. This seems to be the same as staggered pole pieces on a single coil.*

Thanks,
Dude

I agree with David that the blades are used some, but are very unestimated.
Started winding Strat Blades, and I have noticed that the blades cancel hum much better than a full sized gibson style hum buckers.
I know this may start a stir, but I think it is because the blade field is continuous, and the blades are closer together.
I have many full size bucker guitars, and yes they are working fine, but they are not as dead quiet as the mini blades.
B_T

[Dude]

This is why I usually hang out in the background and keep my mouth shut. Sometimes you (plural) can come off as rude. I had a valid point to make about a tweak I do to every adjustable pole piece pickup I see and constantly get thanked for and I get cut down. I understand that blades and pole pieces are a matter of preference. I never even mentioned blades in my comment, just a little information about adjustable pole pieces that found to be beneficial. I don't have a problem with blades. For the record, I did adjust the pole pieces on my first electric at age twelve but it wasn't until an engineer brought it to my attention that I realized just how important they really are. The engineer constantly adjusted the EQ but that wasn't the issue, the issue was that certain strings were louder than others. Please don't make me regret sharing a piece of information that I thought was worth mentioning.*

[big_teee]

This is why I usually hang out in the background and keep my mouth shut. Sometimes you (plural) can come off as rude. I had a valid point to make about a tweak I do to every adjustable pole piece pickup I see and constantly get thanked for and I get cut down. I understand that blades and pole pieces are a matter of preference. I never even mentioned blades in my comment, just a little information about adjustable pole pieces that found to be beneficial. I don't have a problem with blades. For the record, I did adjust the pole pieces on my first electric at age twelve but it wasn't until an engineer brought it to my attention that I realized just how important they really are. The engineer constantly adjusted the EQ but that wasn't the issue, the issue was that certain strings were louder than others. Please don't make me regret sharing a piece of information that I thought was worth mentioning.*

I wasn't cutting anybody down.
Just making a comment.
You need to be thicker skinned, if your going to hang here.
I welcomed your comment, and yes most all of us do adjust the pole screws.
That is why they put them on there.
One observation though, the blades don't seem to need as much adjusting.
Hang in there,
Good Luck,
Terry

[Dude]

Thank you. It wasn't your comment that prompted my response.

[Steve A.]

Actually, those adjustable pole pieces do serve a purpose. I'm not a professional pickup winder, I'm a*professional guitar repairman who offers pickup rewinding. That being said, I believe adjusting the pole pieces focuses the magnetic field for the specific strings. I came across it when I was working in L.A. and an engineer came to me complaining that all he could hear were the high E and G strings. I figured those pole pieces were adjustable for a reason. Made my adjustments, the guitars were re-tracked, and the engineer was forever grateful. It's now a part of every setup I do.

I never thought that the adjustment screws made that much of a difference, especially with humbuckers set low (my preference and that of many of the guitarists that we all worship.) But since I've been playing lap steels with the pickups usually set close to the strings I have learned how important they are- and miss them on the pickups that don't have them.

I believe that replacing the screws and slugs in a humbucker with blades will change the load which could affect the sound. FWIW George L. has been making encapsulated blade-style humbuckers for steel guitars for many years.

Thanks

Steve Ahola

P.S. I remember a radio interview with the Grateful Dead's soundman in the mid-70's and he said that they would spend hours setting up mikes at the gigs so that they didn't have to use EQ. He explained that EQ will put a signal out of phase with itself to some extent.

[David Schwab]

I have noticed that the blades cancel hum much better than a full sized gibson style hum buckers.

because with the blade humbuckers both coils have the same size core. PAFs have mismatched cores. Try making a Gibson style humbucker with either two screw or two stud coils and see how quiet it is.