Seeking Info & Opinions Re: Electromuse Eye-Beam Pickup (for Lap Steel)

[rjb]

Magnet Coatings

i would clean it up and nickel plate it if you have the stuff to do so in shop....

I would just clean the old one..., dry carefully, and varnish.

This got me into thinking about and looking up different magnet coatings.
I did find a thread containing recommendations for Cassell's electrloess nickel plating kits.
I also found Possum's thread in search of bullet-proof lacquer.
But I'm wondering if anyone has experience with any of the following (and if yet another thread on magnet coatings is warranted):


1) On-the-Cheap DIY Electroless Nickel Coating.

I've found several "how to" tutorials online, and they all require the same ingredients: double nickel salt, sal ammoniac, aluminum foil, and water.

I know sal ammoniac is sold in block form as solder iron tinning block.
I know double nickel salt goes by several aliases (ammonium nickelous sulfate, nickel ammonium sulfate, ammonium nickel sulfate...)
I haven't the foggiest idea where you'd buy or how you'd make double nickel salt.

Has anyone tried this procedure, without shelling out for the Cassell kit?
Where'd you get the double nickel salt?


2) Porc-a-Fix (Porcelain patch enamel)

Porc-a-Fix is marketed for patching porcelain appliances and water fixtures.
It looks a lot like the stuff DeArmond/Rowe used on the inside of their backplate-as-bobbin-flanges.

I'm trying some (thinned with mineral spirits) on the Eye-Beam magnet
(but am having some issues- I bet it works better at 72 F and 50% RH than at 102 F and 85%RH).

It may be kinda pricey (especially if you want "decorator colors"), and thick for some uses.
But it seems quite tough, and I think it might be useful for DeArmond restorations and similar applications.



3) Fortified India Ink

Somebody painted my Electromuse's handguard (and part of the body) with battleship-grey brush-on paint. I stripped it and found deteriorated plating.
On a whim, I slapped on some waterproof India ink.
It applied easily, adhered well, dried fast, and looks good. I might just topcoat it & see how it holds up.

But here's what I found:
The most common formulation of India ink is lampblack and water, with shellac as a binder.
Wikipedia sez:
"Once dry, its conductive properties make it useful for electrical connections to difficult substrates, such as glass. Although relatively low in conductivity, surfaces can be made suitable for electroplating, low frequency shielding, or for creating large conductive geometries for high voltage apparatuses. A piece of paper impregnated with India ink serves as a grid leak resistor in some tube radio circuits." India ink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This wacky site 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS - small business ideas lists a formula
How to make a cheap ink that will write on glass or bright metal: 5 parts India ink to 1 part of water glass (sodium silicate solution).

Sodium silicate is listed at Amazon for $12.77 pint.
It also might be found at auto parts stores (poured into radiator for temporary head gasket repair), is used in home beer & wine making, and is a fixative for textile dyes.
Or, it can be made from Drano and dessicant gel beads.

I suggest that waterproof India ink, fortified with sodium silicate, might be a useful magnet coating in applications where you want to ground the magnets.
Is that a goofy idea, or what?

Later,
-rb

[Joe Gwinn]

Sodium Silicate is Water Glass

Sodium silicate is also known as "water glass", and is pretty cheap.

Sodium silicate - Wikipedia

[Joe Gwinn]

I tried a few different files, and it didn't exactly cut like butter. I switched to the grinding wheel pretty quickly.

If it were alnico, file would not cut at all, so it's probably something like cobalt steel.

I actually did grind it in the dark, by the light of a citronella candle. But I have no specific recollection of the sparks. They weren't polka-dotted, or three feet long....

Details do matter, and one can tell a great deal from the sparks. Spark testing - Wikipedia

[rjb]

Sodium silicate is also known as "water glass"

I thought I said that:
"5 parts India ink to 1 part of water glass (sodium silicate solution)"

and is pretty cheap.

So, where do you get yours?

Sodium silicate - Wikipedia

That's where I got my info, too.

-rb

[rjb]

If it were alnico, file would not cut at all, so it's probably something like cobalt steel.

Details do matter, and one can tell a great deal from the sparks. Spark testing - Wikipedia

This is interesting information. But, at this point in time, I think we've established:
1) The "I-Beam" is made of some magnetic material.
2) It is not a common item you can pick up off the shelf.
3) I've cleaned it up and am going to use it as is; I'm not going to try to replicate it.

It would be nice to know exactly what the magnet is made of. It is nice to know a method of differentiating ferrous metals.
But, in terms of the goal of getting the pickup working, is knowing the exact composition of the magnet a detail that really matters?

Thanks,
-rb

[rjb]

If it were alnico, file would not cut at all, so it's probably something like cobalt steel.

Hey Joe,

I changed my mind & stripped the Porc-a-Fix from the magnet; gave it another quick look. I may have made an understatement when I said "it didn't exactly cut like butter".
Going by your description, I'd say its alnico.

Thanks again,
-rb

[rjb]

Sources for Water Glass

Sodium silicate is also known as "water glass", and is pretty cheap.

Before doing this investigation, I had never heard of "water glass", and had no idea where to find it.
For my fellow ignorami, here are some sources:

NOT most auto head gasket and/or radiator "stop leak" products- they generally contain coloring, "metallic flakes", and/or other junk.

FABRIC DYE FIXATIVES
These are online prices; add UPS or FedEx Ground charges.
Possibly available at fabric stores, hobby shops, and/or art supply stores- but I haven't checked yet.

PRO Chem and Dye "ProFix LHF" or "Pro QuickFix" (same formula, same prices)
35-40% sodium silicate in water
$4.03 / 16 oz (1 pint) = 1.5 lb
$15.29 / 64 oz (1/2 gal)
$28.98 / 1 gal
$120.75 / 5 gal

Dharma Trading Company
Afterfix (sodium silicate solution; concentration not stated)
$7.39 / 32 oz
$25.35 / 1 gal

Does anyone know cheaper and/or local sources?



Later,
Ralph "News You Can Use" Barthine

[Joe Gwinn]

I thought I said that:
"5 parts India ink to 1 part of water glass (sodium silicate solution)"

Right you are. What triggered me was the expense - the stuff used to be cheap as dirt (when sold as water glass) versus by its chemical name.

So, where do you get yours?

It's been a while since I bought any, but farmers still use it.

Here is a random internet supplier: Tools/Farm*|*Farming*|*Poultry Equipment*|*Water Glass (liquid sodium silicate) - Lehmans.com.


Actually, I bought Sodium Metasilicate by accident a few months ago - it was misleadingly sold as "TSP" (which most people expect to mean trisodium phosphate). I needed trisodium phosphate to augment Cascade dishwasher detergent (which now totally lacks phosphates) to get rid of the swamp smells and cloudy glasses.

[Joe Gwinn]

This is interesting information. But, at this point in time, I think we've established:
1) The "I-Beam" is made of some magnetic material.
2) It is not a common item you can pick up off the shelf.
3) I've cleaned it up and am going to use it as is; I'm not going to try to replicate it.

It would be nice to know exactly what the magnet is made of. It is nice to know a method of differentiating ferrous metals.
But, in terms of the goal of getting the pickup working, is knowing the exact composition of the magnet a detail that really matters?

Usually, knowing what something is made of is essential, but one certainly can be lucky.

In another posting, you say that it's so hard that you think it's probably alnico. You can confirm this well enough for present purposes using the spark test - grind a known alnico bar, and the H-section.

[rjb]

It's been a while since I bought any, but farmers still use it.

Here is a random internet supplier: Tools/Farm*|*Farming*|*Poultry Equipment*|*Water Glass (liquid sodium silicate) - Lehmans.com.

Compared to the fabric dye fixative prices, that's a decent price for a gallon.
I could try the local co-op. Thing is, I only need about a tablespoon.

-rb

[rjb]

Usually, knowing what something is made of is essential, but one certainly can be lucky.

You'd be surprised. Some people navigate their entire lives by being lucky.

In another posting, you say that it's so hard that you think it's probably alnico. You can confirm this well enough for present purposes using the spark test - grind a known alnico bar, and the H-section.

Well, the only known alnico bars I have are in working pickups. And, as interesting as it might be, I'm not gonna strip a working pickup in the name of science. Some things in life were meant to be a mystery....

-rb

[Sweetfinger]

Sodium Silicate is used in liquid clay "slips". Find your local ceramics supply house that carries slip-casting molds or especially one that makes their own slip and they'll likely be able to get you what you need.

[Joe Gwinn]

You'd be surprised. Some people navigate their entire lives by being lucky.

Chance favors the prepared mind. -- L. Pasteur

Well, the only known alnico bars I have are in working pickups. And, as interesting as it might be, I'm not gonna strip a working pickup in the name of science.

Your local hardware store can probably come up with a cheap alnico magnet or two. Or liberate the magnet from a broken gadget. The grinder test does not destroy the magnet.

[rjb]

Chance favors the prepared mind. -- L. Pasteur

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.- Thomas Gray

Your local hardware store can probably come up with a cheap alnico magnet or two. Or liberate the magnet from a broken gadget. The grinder test does not destroy the magnet.

So, then, what?
I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the sparks from the "Eye-Beam" do or do not match the sparks from a hardware store magnet.
It's physical dimensions still dictate how much wire I can get on it, and it'll "charge up" to "whatever it wants".

-rb

[Joe Gwinn]

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.- Thomas Gray

It's from the last paragraph of Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College - Wikisource, written by the poet Thomas Gray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I don't think Thomas Gray was concerned with practical matters.

So, then, what?
I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the sparks from the "Eye-Beam" do or do not match the sparks from a hardware store magnet.
It's physical dimensions still dictate how much wire I can get on it, and it'll "charge up" to "whatever it wants".

In practical arts, one cannot know too much about how something one is building or repairing works, but have it your way.