Baseplate source and problems.....

[Possum]

Does anyone know the source of the exact baseplates AllParts sells, what their minimum is etc. I've been using their plates for bridge pickups and Mojo plates for neck, the metals are different. My new batch of Mojo plates don't seem to be nickel silver anymore. Aging them in ferric turns them horrible ugly colors, see attachment. I did a test with AllParts plate and current Mojo plates, putting the same pickup on each and the Mojo plate is adding a midrange boost which also means its dropping the treble like brass baseplates do (on the Extech). They used to age like real nickel silver, now they aren't. I have an aging formula that I also tried that usually turns the nickel green as normal aging will and now there is no green at all, just another ugly color. There's no weird coating doing this, I think maybe their vendor is trying to cut corners on cost or this is some horrible ROHS metal that has little or no nickel in it now. Mojo's plates used to be really nice for neck position. Anway, I like the AllParts baseplates but not the steep pricing so if I can find a direct source would like to buy a bunch of them, maybe do a group buy if anyone is interested in that too.

I did complain to Mojo but since David Shepherd left they don't seem to care about my concerns and their vendor avoided answering questions about what kind of weird metal are they making these things out of now.

The photo shows a previous Mojo baseplate at the top and 2 on the bottom, all just dipped in ferric solution for a short time....

[Lpone]

Hi Dave,
so how do the old and new mojo baseplates compare to the stewmac ones?

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

John Manning has been my contact at Mojo - not sure if that helps you or if it is even his department, but he was helpful and gave detailed answers to all of my questions. I can't say that for many other parts sellers.

Also on the all-parts... if you sign up as a dealer, you'll get the stuff half price. I don't know if you're doing that yet or not. I keep meaning to do it, but I haven't needed anything from them en masse so I just haven't gotten around to it.

[Joe Gwinn]

I'd bet it's some kind of brass, perhaps flashed with nickel.

A quick test is to measure the inductance and AC resistance of a winding placed on the known-good baseplate and then on the new baseplate, and then on a brass baseplate. This assumes all baseplates are the same thickness.

Because the resistivivity of nickel silver is far greater than that of brass, the excess of AC resistance over DC resistance will be greater for brass than for nickel silver. The inductance will also be reduced more by brass than nickel silver. Plot the results on a chart of inductance versus Rexcess (=Rac-Rdc), all at 1 KHz. With luck, things will cluster nicely.

[big_teee]

Hi Dave,
so how do the old and new mojo baseplates compare to the stewmac ones?

I Don't think you would use the StewMac Parts, if you are trying to make period correct PAFs.
The Kits I started with from StewMac several Years ago, were all 50mm Parts, Bobbins, Keeper, Baseplate Etc.
I think Real PAFs were all 49.2mm.
I like the GuitarUSA Baseplates, they have a little shorter leg than the PAFs, & I like that.
They appear to be Nickel. I haven't tried to age any, I'm not into the Vintage Retro look, or PAFs for that matter.
Terry

[marku52]

Yeah, I was *stunned* at the Extech numbers the first time I set a coil on top of a plate of brass. Like "Holy Cr*p, where did the Q go?"

Thanks again for recommending the Extech. It is the most useful tool in the pickup box.

[David Schwab]

I did complain to Mojo but since David Shepherd left they don't seem to care about my concerns and their vendor avoided answering questions about what kind of weird metal are they making these things out of now.

The new pickup guy at Mojo is Tom Brantley. His contact info is here:

Pickup Rewinds - Mojotone.com

I've actually been thinking of contacting someone higher up at Mojo because he seems to be having an issue getting some parts, even though David got them, so surely Mojo knows where they came from, plus I gave him a list of every contact and website I know for pickup parts. But nothing so far. For example, they have a closed cover Jazz bass pickup cover, but only the neck size. Thats useless without the bridge size cover. It's also exactly the part I need, since it's much taller than the WSC covers I had been using. I also asked him about getting the closed cover EMG style start pickups, and he doesn't seem to know where to get them, even though they sell the humbucker version!

So I'm getting the feeling he doesn't care for anything but Fender and Gibson style parts, and seems to be having issues getting some of the stuff David started getting.

So we all need to complain to somewhere there about the parts situation.

[copperheadroads]

On the topic of Metal parts like Baseplates & covers .is there any place to get these overseas

[JGundry]

This may just be a case of sourcing parts from China. It very well may be that Mojo's parts maker in China switched the specs. on the metal without permission. This is a big reason why I don't have parts made in China. They are notorious for changing specifications on parts without notifying the customer. The last time I dealt with Mojotone is when Dave was there but I must say that even then I became way less eager to buy from Mojotone when they started making their own pickups. Maybe Mojotone wants to become less of a parts supplier and more of a retailer and that is why you are getting less variety and changed specs. on parts? Maybe pickup parts supplying is just not a priority if their focus is making and selling their own pickups.

Dave, you may want to make sure you have new ferric chloride. If you are reusing it, overtime the ferric chloride will start making deposits of oxidation from previous uses on your parts that will look like what you see in those photos. Even at that, if you age unplated nickel silver with ozone it will end up with a tarnish that looks like and old penny. If you are getting parts stamped in the USA, the nickel silver will come from ThyssenKrupp. There are different places that roll it down to different sizes but the raw nickel silver pretty much all comes from ThyssenKrupp. If the parts are coming from China my guess is there is no telling where the nickel silver is coming from order to order.

[Possum]

Tom didn't reply to my last email when I told him my alternate aging solution that always turns nickel silver green just turned it the same ugly brownish color, and that the LCR meter was showing me also this metal is something else too. Its not real nickel silver which I believe is supposed to be 14% nickel. Their original first order of baseplates were also more brass than nickel silver and David rectified that problem quickly, I wish he was still there, but he's more a self employed self starter type like myself and probably living in an employee culture got old, they had to hire 2 guys to replace what he did for them. Anyway, I give up. And yeah its probably Chinese and they pulled a fast one to increase profits. Anyway, I can't use them anymore, but really liked them when they were true nickel silver.

New or old ferric won't turn nickel silver dark brown and I do use fresh ferric, the baseplates in the photo all went into the same bath.

Mojo plates have larger pole holes, oversize and when they were nickel silver they were a little brighter sounding than AllParts so made good neck plates. I think StewMac's are the same as AllParts but haven't bought theirs in years, too expensive and no price breaks, and yes I get the builder discount at Allparts, but they're still steep, maybe nickel pricing went up over time.

Guitar USA plates are short leg and I don't like the extra lead hole in them, but I do use them for my Pig90 sets and they are real nickel silver, just not good for PAF's.

There is a definite need for US made parts for buckers, baseplates and covers, but it involves substantial investment and try convincing a US company to make covers as good as Tom Holmes does, there's no profit in doing them that well.

[copperheadroads]

Thanks for the heads up Possum .I wonder when they changed .i still have a bunch of long leg baseplates i bought in the spring .i use mostly short baseplates -I hope these have not changed ...I guess its time to break out my extech & test some plates

[Possum]

They would probably make good bridge baseplates, but in neck position where you always fight for clarity at least I won't use them for now. I'll wait several months and ask if they got better ones in. My order was a couple months ago, then I ran out of my old stock. I relic my baseplates because I hate the look of new shiny baseplates and suddenly a quick dip and these horrible colors appeared. I never use brass baseplates but wonder if they would turn the same awful colors.

I'll email Michael one more time and at least ask if they can tell me when a new batch comes in, if they are paying for nickel silver they should be getting what they pay for....

[belwar]

The allparts ones are metalurgically the most similar to a paf of the off-the-shelf baseplates. They come from Keiyo in Japan. Keiyo is like Gotoh, you never actually buy direct from Gotoh - always from a middleman. In the case of allparts they go from Keiyo > Hosco > Allparts. Hosco will likely not deal with you and will refer you to stewmac or allparts. Mins are probably 250-500 units.

I've had the horrible color situation apear on a project I worked on and it cost me a fortune. I had to pay someone to scrub every baseplate with CLR. As far as I could tell the surface of the nickel silver was reactive and oxidized very easily. The problem was made worse with california tap water. If I had to guess i'd say that the copper content increased as copper is often reactive like that.

[Possum]

Useful info Belwar thanks. Well, like I said a group buy, maybe Hosco'd be interested in a decent size order? So you KNOW this problem then and what a bitch it is, not to mention it changes the tone of the pickups I think. I haven't done listening tests to see how much, I just won't buy these for now. TarnX will take the ugly color off but then I had some problems soldering to them after that, or maybe it was the wadded polishing NeverDull stuff I used. They still want to tarnish though and over time will naturally start looking bad as they age. I wonder what it would cost to make a stamping die and get them made and do that in a group buy situation, I just don't have buying power as small as my biz is.

[WolfeMacleod]

The allparts ones are metalurgically the most similar to a paf of the off-the-shelf baseplates. They come from Keiyo in Japan. .

Took me years of nightly searching to figure out who Keiyo was. I think I found them is 2002 or 03. They won't sell direct, and if you contact them, Allparts will get pissed off at you.
I;'m the guy that linked StewMac with Keiyo.