Sigle Coil : lack of smoothness and mediums ....

[freefrog]

Hi everybody,
I must confess, I am a newbie and I a winding my 10th pups. Great anniversary ;-)
I try to clone the Fender CS69 because I love them. I used PE, Alnico 5 magnets and tried to get 5,5k per pup. I take care to wind not too tight.
When I AB the two sets (CS69 and mine) there is a difference. I get clarity, good trebles, tight basses and good definition but it lacks this kind of smoothness, roundness, and a bit of low mediums which are present in the CS69 set. My set seems too tight, almost too hifi.

Here are the main differences between the two sets :
- I got 5,47K instead of the 5,5K
- My set is not pot waxed (microphonie)
- My set is wound the same way (CCW) put the polarization is different (North, up on the magnets)

Do you have an idea ?

ps: sorry for my English, I try do to my best.

Fabrice

Hi,

Another French here. I'm much less advanced than you (I've never cloned any CS69) but I can share a pair of stupid ideas about the way to get a smoother tone from a single coil without modifying it. :-)

Wax potting, as said above and for the same reason.

Change the value of your pots: lowering their resistance will "round" the resonant peak of your pickups.

Play on external capacitance: use a longer cable to plug the axe or put a small capacitor across the ground and hot point of your output jack... It will shift down the resonant frequency. Recommended value: 100 to a few hundreds of picofarads.

Degauss slightly your alnico rods...

Everybody is free to correct my post if I'm talking nonsense.

[kayakerca]

Your correct.
If you run it through the Coil estimator and Pick Bobbin as 67 Strat, and pick 42 HFV, 100% would be 145 TPL.
Single PE or SPN should be 156 for 100%.
Coil Estimator
Later,
T

Thanks for the Coil Estimator link. Nice new item for this recently retired bean counter to add into the collection of new tools and toys.

However, how do we get from 156 TPL with perfect 'side by side' layering to "CS 69's have around 200/220 TPL" (from second post in thread). What am I missing as I can't see you you could get to 220 TPL by increasing the height in the bobbin. 220 turns X .0028 wire thickness + .094 bottom flatwork + .062 top flatwork = .772. Since Strat magnets are say short .650 to tall .710, I can't see how you get 220 TPL. I need to be educated a LOT more. . . Please. . .

[copperheadroads]

I don't think it was mentioned but a set of Fender Customshop 69's all 3 pickups are wound to 5.8k not 5.5k
which will make them sound warmer

[Strat76]

I am the OP

The height of the bobbins I made are around 11 mm. I can say that 200/220 TPL fits perfectly.

I followed this advice and I am very happy with the results.
Now I can play with my pups and I can say that I find them more accurate, more alive than the CS 69's which were my reference.

Anyway my pickups are wound to 5,6K - 5,5K ...

I wound some around 5,8K and will test them very soon.

Thanks again for all your precious advices.

[big_teee]

I am the OP

The height of the bobbins I made are around 11 mm. I can say that 200/220 TPL fits perfectly.

I followed this advice and I am very happy with the results.
Now I can play with my pups and I can say that I find them more accurate, more alive than the CS 69's which were my reference.

Anyway my pickups are wound to 5,6K - 5,5K ...

I wound some around 5,8K and will test them very soon.

Thanks again for all your precious advices.

Did You use 42 PE Wire like the CS 69s?
B_T

[Strat76]

Hi BT,
Yes like the original ones ...

[Bill M]

All kidding aside for a minute, I thought scatter winding was more along the lines of less turns per layer than more turns per layer. A Strat bobbin height of .4375" with 42 AWG wire @ .0028" thick (with insulation) would have 156.25 TPL to lay down the wire 'side by side'. At 200/220 TPL (top section of this thread), the wire would be laying down more layers than could be accommodated on a layer. I was under the impression (no doubt mistakenly) that 'scattering' would be more along the lines of fewer turns per layer. Can you help the new guy learn a little more stuff on this topic?

At 200-220 tpl some of the turns are going back over the previos turn and the wire is packed in there. CS69's are machine wound pickups, as they should be.

[Bill M]

I don't think it was mentioned but a set of Fender Customshop 69's all 3 pickups are wound to 5.8k not 5.5k
which will make them sound warmer

I have measured at least 10 sets of CS69's and they all ranged from 5.45k to 5.65k at 70 degrees. I have yet to measure one that was 5.80k as fender lists them to be.

[copperheadroads]

I have measured at least 10 sets of CS69's and they all ranged from 5.45k to 5.65k at 70 degrees. I have yet to measure one that was 5.80k as fender lists them to be.

huh...... I wonder why

[SonnyW]

I've got to agree with you Bill. I only have one set of CS59's on my bench to play with, but I get 5.66, 5.68, and 5.55K This is measured with the DMM function on a calibrated Tek 2236 Scope and corrected for temperature to 68F. My thermometer is accurate within 1 degree C to the Bureau of Standards. If I don't correct for temperature, I get raw readings of 5.79-5.93 but that is at the higher temperature in my shop, around 87F.

[big_teee]

I've got to agree with you Bill. I only have one set of CS59's on my bench to play with, but I get 5.66, 5.68, and 5.55K This is measured with the DMM function on a calibrated Tek 2236 Scope and corrected for temperature to 68F. My thermometer is accurate within 1 degree C to the Bureau of Standards. If I don't correct for temperature, I get raw readings of 5.79-5.93 but that is at the higher temperature in my shop, around 87F.

Rather than have to make a correction, Wouldn't it be more reliable to just take them in the house and get them to room temp?
Doesn't the Temperature Compesation still leave Some margin for error?
Just Wondering?
Terry

[SonnyW]

Rather than have to make a correction, Wouldn't it be more reliable to just take them in the house and get them to room temp?
Doesn't the Temperature Compesation still leave Some margin for error?
Just Wondering?
Terry

Certainly it would be better to take the measurements directly at the correct temperature. I don't do that mainly because my equipment isn't all that portable since I am using the scope, and also the house is still several degrees different than the usual standard temperature for measuring i.e. 20 C. I have some handheld meters, but mine aren't as accurate as the scope's DMM. The resistance does change about 1% for every 5 degrees F. That is enough to be concerned with though, or at least I think so for pickups. I don't think the correction factors add any uncertainty though. I don't use a formula, just a chart that I got from one of the magnet wire companies, I can't remember which one. It isn't dead on, but I have been able to repeat measurements fairly accurately. I was mainly just confirming that I often find the actual resistance measurement somewhat less than advertised. -sw