strat pickups

[goggles]

hello, im a newbie here and to pickup winding in general so please excuse any stupid questions.

if i got 42 awg formvar wire, alnico 5 magnets and fibre bobbins and dunked them in hot wax will they sound like fender custom shop 54 pickups? i have a 54 custom shop set and a set of sliders vintage 59 and they sound completely different. The construction looks the same and they look like they've have been made out of the same materials.

all things being equal, if you wind three pickups out of the same parts will they all sound alike?

what are the variables that dictate the differences in sound and tone between different pickups of the same type other than the material used (and the number of turns and magnet strength)?

[David Schwab]

You should be able to get them to sound very similar. You have to figure out how many turns of wire they used, and the turns per layer, and the tension, etc. But you will be surprised how close they will probably sound use be winding them to about the same number of turns. You might even like them better.

[MrCandy]

To make a clone the first thing you need is spectrum analyzer and the correctness of the measurements.
About the effect of variables David mentioned you can read and watch in our blog(Internet Explorer) and our youtube channel.

[jason lollar]

a real vintage 54 fender pickup made with rod magnets regardless of what model it is would most likely have - the closest thing we have to it today is alnico 3. Thats just testing with inductance and a magnotometer not by doing a destructive test as I never had a real 54 pickup I wanted to burn up. real vintage 59 strat pickups would be alnico 5
My experience is fender must have gotten a good deal on alnico three rod magnets in 1954 and they used them on everything from steel guitar pickups to strats. Anyone else ever noticed that?
Expecting to make a pickup that sounds just like some other manufacturers pickup in one attempt isnt very realistic depending on how picky you are.

[Corona Blue]

a real vintage 54 fender pickup made with rod magnets regardless of what model it is would most likely have - the closest thing we have to it today is alnico 3.

Jason-
I have read where Bill Lawrence says the same thing about what Fender used in those early pickups.

[big_teee]

I don't know about the rest of you guys,
but I don't think you have to a Fancy High Dollar Spectrometor to make a good Vintage Retro type Single Coil Pickup.
I don't think Leo had any of that stuff back then.
Just the O2 from where I sit!
I do want to try the A3s.
I've only done A5s So far on strat coils.
I bet they have a good vintage sound.
B_T

[Corona Blue]

+1

But science is fun too.

Still, I think developing a good ear for sound is as critical as any expensive piece of test gear.

[Bill M]

a real vintage 54 fender pickup made with rod magnets regardless of what model it is would most likely have - the closest thing we have to it today is alnico 3. Thats just testing with inductance and a magnotometer not by doing a destructive test as I never had a real 54 pickup I wanted to burn up. real vintage 59 strat pickups would be alnico 5

I've documented a sept. 54 strat that had( by gauss readings and inductance testing) what appeared to be A5 mags, also the mag diameter on those pickups was appox. .188"

I don't know about the rest of you guys,
but I don't think you have to a Fancy High Dollar Spectrometor to make a good Vintage Retro type Single Coil Pickup.
I don't think Leo had any of that stuff back then.

On the contrary, Leo came from an electronics background and before making musical instruments was a radio and tv repairman. He would have had good knowledge of test equipment. I have seen some photos of Leo, back in the 50's sitting at his bench with a board type test jig, with 6 strings and tuners. It had what looked like a strat pickup on it and he was looking at his O-scope. In that pic. there was also a sweep generator and other test equipment. Leo was very aware of frequency responce and he designed his pickups, and amps, to sound the way he wanted them to sound. Now, the final product back then was all over the place due to hand winding with very crude winders.

[big_teee]

I've documented a sept. 54 strat that had( by gauss readings and inductance testing) what appeared to be A5 mags, also the mag diameter on those pickups was appox. .188"



On the contrary, Leo came from an electronics background and before making musical instruments was a radio and tv repairman. He would have had good knowledge of test equipment. I have seen some photos of Leo, back in the 50's sitting at his bench with a board type test jig, with 6 strings and tuners. It had what looked like a strat pickup on it and he was looking at his O-scope. In that pic. there was also a sweep generator and other test equipment. Leo was very aware of frequency responce and he designed his pickups, and amps, to sound the way he wanted them to sound. Now, the final product back then was all over the place due to hand winding with very crude winders.

They also did a lot of shoot from the hip and try things until they worked.
Terry

[David Schwab]

On the contrary, Leo came from an electronics background and before making musical instruments was a radio and tv repairman. He would have had good knowledge of test equipment. I have seen some photos of Leo, back in the 50's sitting at his bench with a board type test jig, with 6 strings and tuners. It had what looked like a strat pickup on it and he was looking at his O-scope. In that pic. there was also a sweep generator and other test equipment. Leo was very aware of frequency responce and he designed his pickups, and amps, to sound the way he wanted them to sound. Now, the final product back then was all over the place due to hand winding with very crude winders.

Leo's work bench at G&L:




G&L Guitars

[Bill M]

Dave, Thanks for posting the pictures. That work bench looks like mine with all the clutter.

[David Schwab]

Dave, Thanks for posting the pictures. That work bench looks like mine with all the clutter.

It's nice that they left it that way for the last 20 years.

I hate to say it, but it looks a lot like my bench, and even my desk here, but to my wife's chagrin!

But hey, if Leo can have a messy bench ...

[MrCandy]

Still, I think developing a good ear for sound is as critical as any expensive piece of test gear.

Yes, good ear is critical, but the artist can not paint a picture blindfolded
Сomparison of measuring equipment data with the actual sound by ear is an essential process in guitar pickup modeling.
For example we recorded two pickup sounds for you under the same conditions.
One of sound samples is Fender Original 57/62, the other one is our pickup with very close magnets and close number of turns.
Two samples were recorded in neck position.
RP of these pickups are very different.
Please try to figure out where RP is lower and were it is higher by ear.
If you will answer this questions, then we will send you full tecnical char of these two pickups.
It will be useful practice for you and your ears.

Samples
1.mp3
2.mp3

[davos]

This G&L Video shows Leo's untouched workshop- some cool monitors and a bunch of toys in there!

Leo Fender: Life at G&L Guitars - YouTube

[JGundry]

For a pickup as bare bones as a Strat pickup the biggest variable tonally beyond getting the tension wire and winding pattern correct is the magnet. At the very least you have to send the magnet you are copying to a magnetics place and have them run a BH curve. Ideally you want to have an xray spectrograph made but that will trash the magnet. Right now I'm working on cloning a machine wound 64' Strat pickup. I got magnet samples from the 3 remaining USA magnet makers and they all sound radically different even though they are all A5.