So what in solder "sounds" bad, and what can be done about it?

[Mark Hammer]

And I respectfully concur. Clearly your knowledge of solder trumps my own and I was being too picky and grabbing a number out of thin air.

My point was essentially that people can use an iron which is insufficiently hot for the job at hand. That can be affected by the solder composition but it may just as easily be that they're attempting to flow solder on a joint that dissipates heat so efficiently you can never get it hot enough unless you have a big jump in wattage. People will look at me askance for even broaching the idea of a solder gun, but YOU try getting something other than a cold joint with a 35W Weller on a ceramic tube socket. I suppose one could just as easily think it has something to do with the solder as the iron used to flow it.

[defaced]

Woo hoo! My degree is finally paying off

Though I agree with the heart of your message and I point back to my first reply in this thread: "There's nothing wrong with the solder".

[RedHouse]

...but YOU try getting something other than a cold joint with a 35W Weller on a ceramic tube socket...

I have a 30W pencil iron I use all the time on ceramic tube sockets and 22G & 24G stranded wire, ya must be having trouble with something else there Mark, maybe solid like 18G, for heaters?.
(which ain't a great idea anyway)

[km6xz]

Pease was someone similar to my favorite physicist, Feyman, who looked for really simple explanations of observed phenomena. Myth and golden ear experts were not happy how they both cut through the crap to get to heart of things. Both were good communicators and were a pleasure to read.

[Alan0354]

I started out as a technician for 2 years before becoming an engineer and manager of engineering. I did a lot of solder through the years, I use big tip and 800 deg temperature. Using a low power, low temperature small tip is asking for problem. You have to be good in soldering. You have to do it fast, you always tin both side to be soldered together before the final step of soldering together. People make mistake of keep heating the joint over and over again. When the solder stop smoking, all the flux are evaporated and it will not give a good solder joint, just take a lot of practice. I had to teach my technicians and engineers how to solder when I first hired them. For people that don't know soldering ( even if they think they know), better look at some Youtube or get a book and practice.

[defaced]

I did a lot of solder through the years, I use big tip and 800 deg temperature. Using a low power, low temperature small tip is asking for problem.

Yep yep and yep. It's all heat transfer physics, which is a stubborn thing to evade.

[fieldwrangler]

Speaker drivers are complicated devices full of little resonances, and people are really good at hearing them. Nothing varies more in audio than the sound of speakers.

Once again, I couldn't agree more.

'Course, then there's The Room.

I swear, I could put the worst amp in a flattering room and some folks would wanna buy it.

Then, I could put their best amp in a really bad environment (like outside on a chair on the lawn with the speaker pointing at their ear) and they'd wanna sell it.

[fieldwrangler]

I don't like Mesa at all.

I have a Mark I (with the cute Dymo labels on the back) that you might not be quite so averse to.

Sortof a mil-spec-ish Bassman with the channels in series.

[Alan0354]

Once again, I couldn't agree more.

'Course, then there's The Room.

I swear, I could put the worst amp in a flattering room and some folks would wanna buy it.

Then, I could put their best amp in a really bad environment (like outside on a chair on the lawn with the speaker pointing at their ear) and they'd wanna sell it.

People don't realize the importance of the room. I moved to a bigger house 6 years ago, my hifi system sounded like Krap(as in C!!) because it is a different room and no carpet. Then I bought the whole entertainment wall unit and put the amp and tv in...........Magically the sound quality improved dramatically!! Just that little added furniture changing the reflection make a day and night difference. The biggest variable is the room, speaker and the speaker cabinet. Electronics are secondary.

Another factor, human memory!!! You think you remember how it sound, you really don't. I have tested so many pups and wrote down my impression Then two months later, I picked up my guitars and compare, I felt differently in the same room, using the same amp!!! Very different from what I remembered. That's the reason eye witness is not consider the most valuable in the court of law.

[Steve Conner]

Well that was your first mistake, you shouldn't have written your impressions down, so you could keep on kidding yourself. "Trust your ears" man. ;-)

The human ear (or stereo pair of) is an excellent instrument, it's the brain and its way of perceiving sound and forming memories of it that isn't so consistent. The impression you get is a gestalt that includes everything you know about the sound-producing device, not just the sound waves received by your ears from it.

There is nothing wrong with this, it just makes it hard to do science. I heard a recent study that found that wine tasting results were affected by the choice of music. It wouldn't surprise me if all sense memories were gestalts.

Floyd Toole of Harman international has written some interesting AES papers on Harman's in house speaker testing methods. They found that, much as better looking people earn more, the more impressive looking speakers scored higher on listening tests, but only if the judging panel could see them. When the speakers were placed behind a curtain, the advantage disappeared.

There is nothing wrong with this. Since no customer ever shoves his new speakers behind a curtain, it proves that you just need to make them look impressive for ultimate sound quality. (this is the premise behind Stereophile's equipment reviews)

Floyd Toole also wrote some good papers on room acoustics, which is where I came in. My living room has terrible acoustics. When I moved in, the first thing I brought was the hi-fi, and I too wondered why it sounded so bad as I was painting the completely empty, bare room. (First lesson in room acoustics.) The furniture and carpeting improved the midrange and high end a bit, but it couldn't fix the awful bass room modes. It is worse than a chair outside on the lawn etc.

I'm now using a Behringer DEQ2496 to compensate those, which would have audiophiles spewing in disgust, like every other one of my forum posts I hope!

[Mike Sulzer]

Long ago I used to say that the most expensive stereo component is the listening room. Then I realized that it is the listener.

[Mark Hammer]

And the general unawareness of those facts is why some folks will mistakenly attribute problems to solder sometimes.

[big_teee]

A good Soldering Flux, and a good Hot Iron, Solves Many soldering Woes!
B_T

[Alan0354]

A good Soldering Flux, and a good Hot Iron, Solves Many soldering Woes!
B_T

Most common mistake I saw was what I called scooping solder. A lot of time, when you hold two components together to solder them together, you don't have a spare hand to feed the solder to the joint to be soldered. A lot of people try to take the easy way by using the tip to melt some solder onto the tip and then apply onto the joint!!! It is like scooping the solder and put onto the joint. This is one of the biggest problem of getting cold solder. This don't work even if you tin the two side first.

People don't realize the flux in the solder evaporate in a second or two after melting. The moment it stop smoking, the solder is too old and need to be scraped off from the tip with a wet sponge. This is the tricky part of soldering, you need to feed the solder to the joint or you have to make sure you re-float solder to the joint with fresh solder. You always need a wet sponge and keep scrapping the tip on the sponge to get rid of the excess solder and keep it shinny before soldering. A dirty tip inhibit heat transfer and promote cold solder.

It take a lot of practice to do good soldering, just like welding. A good solder joing look shinny afterwards, if it look dull, you need to refloat the solder.

[defaced]

Mah, what chew talkin bout. Weldin is easy.