So what in solder "sounds" bad, and what can be done about it?

[David Schwab]

Everybody needs a good knob-job

It's the guys that buy this kind of shite that crack me up:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15991[/ATTACH]

Wattgate 381 Audio Grade Duplex Receptacle Outlet

If they spend that kind of cash on that kind of equipment expecting their audio quality to rise, well, PT Barnum was looking for them on their way in.

Wow... read some of the comments. So I guess this fixes everything, regardless to how bad the rest of the wiring in the house is...

I can only hope that Wattgate takes their philosophy further an offers whole-house wiring with the same technology and possible circuit breakers with the same cryogenic treated contacts. This way I would be assured of the purity of the electrons as they enter my pristine chain of audio gear.

By the way, these are the same people who put paper in oil caps in their guitars. it's true.

I rest my case.

[RedHouse]

...I rest my case.

Bout time!

[soundmasterg]

The importance of a well-regulated power supply is discovered through listening. Obviously you can measure the effects, but that will not show you how important they are.

I don't think a well-regulated power supply would sound very good in a guitar amp....the unregulated power supply and the various stages interacting with themselves are a big part of traditional tube based guitar amps and contribute a lot to the touch responsiveness of those amps. Now if you're talking hi-fi amps, then I would tend to agree with your statement.

Greg

[salvarsan]

Can you give the 2nd order differential equation formula? I fail to see the reasoning of the approximation of Ractual formula you gave.

In the usual Internet tradition of intellectual laziness, no.
This is only an internet forum, and I have limiited time for it.

Why don't you come up with an equation of your own?

[No Mutant Enemy]

In the usual Internet tradition of intellectual laziness, no.
This is only an internet forum, and I have limiited time for it.

Why don't you come up with an equation of your own?

Failing which, 10 seconds with Gooogle leads to this.

[Mike Sulzer]

Failing which, 10 seconds with Gooogle leads to this.

You really think Alan was asking for a reference to differential equations in general? He wants to see the specific deq that Salvarsan used to derive his approximation. Based on his responses, I have no idea what Salvarsan's interests in this really are, and you are not helping.

[imaradiostar]

I have to jump in and say something.

I work with a lot of really smart mechanical and electronic engineers. In general they can design a solution to a problem and it works really well.

I have a lot of life experience as an electronics tech and as a mechanic from two former careers. I do much of the mechanical assembly on our various R&D work. I do not yet have my degree.

One of the things I've noticed at work (on more than a few occasions) is that engineers design something that looks "right" to them but doesn't work out in the real world. All the math in the world can't substitute for the real-world assembly of something. There are practical things that are difficult to take into account until you start drilling holes or soldering components together. Part of my job at work is to build things and the back and forth interaction of engineering and assembly make for a better product.

Sometimes engineers try to create a $20 solution to a 20 cent problem.

I appreciate math and science but in the end, make sure you're doing something that's practical and works. For all of this conjecture about speaker cable resistance a few simple lab tests could settle it all. Drive a cable/load from a suitable impedance and measure the difference at each end. Apply a series of high voltages to a resistor and measure the change in current as the voltage scales. It should be pretty easy to see what the relationship is and even do a curve fit if needed.

I think most of the "difference" people hear between different kinds of film caps or different resistors come down to subtle differences in component values. I think a proper double blind test with accurately matched component values would show that very few people, if any, could hear the difference. There are exceptions, of course- perhaps ceramic caps are a good example, but mainly because of their changing value with applied voltage.

In reality- all of this matters little to the real business of building and enjoying music hardware.

jamie

[defaced]

I do not yet have my degree.

Consider yourself lucky for all of the reasons you mentioned. When you're an engineer, it's difficult to get the hands on time it takes to be effective because of the whole payscale issue and current direction many companies think engineers need to go (project management/engineering). Unless an engineer actively seeks out positions where they can get dirty for the first 5 years, or have hobbies that already pre-dispose them to practical thinking, then you're going to be a glorified paper pusher. As for math, it has it's time and place but is largely an obstacle over things like fundamental qualitative analysis. It's that whole can't see the forest for the trees thing.

-Mike, an engineer

[Steve Conner]

I wouldn't trust any engineer who didn't know how to drill holes and solder things. They would be more of a mathematician or manager.

The guys Jamie is talking about should be forced to assemble one of their own designs every now and again, to give them a feel for how things go together.

Steve also an engineer

[David Schwab]

Players who have something interesting to say, and are skilled enough to have created a reproducible sound really do not stress about equipment as much as amateurs who think gear makes the player and song do. When players like Santana or B.B. King came to play in the studio, it was quite telling that there was so little concern over the gear. B.B. did not even care which amp be used, just brought his guitar, extra strings and a cord. Two notes however, and there was no mistake who on the playing end of that thing.
If someone is not going over well, it has nothing to do with gear, it is your stage personality and material, assuming there is a level of competency in playing that material.

I agree, you should be able to get a good tone out of anything.

My original point was that there is no right or wrong tone from an electric guitar. I think you are pretty much saying the same thing about the guy didn't want to play without his pedal.

But getting a tone you like makes playing more enjoyable, and most people will play better. But if you've been playing long enough it doesn't matter. I had to use an SVT Classic at a rehearsal studio the other day. I think they sound like crap, but it didn't stop me from playing well. But I wasn't enjoying the tone.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Consider yourself lucky for all of the reasons you mentioned. When you're an engineer, it's difficult to get the hands on time it takes to be effective because of the whole payscale issue and current direction many companies think engineers need to go (project management/engineering). Unless an engineer actively seeks out positions where they can get dirty for the first 5 years, or have hobbies that already pre-dispose them to practical thinking, then you're going to be a glorified paper pusher. As for math, it has it's time and place but is largely an obstacle over things like fundamental qualitative analysis. It's that whole can't see the forest for the trees thing.

-Mike, an engineer

I can't tell you how many times I've had engineers come to me and tell me how I'm supposed to fix their guitars, and it is always absolutely HORRIBLE, and punctuated with something like "trust me on this, I'm an engineer". You want to ask them why they don't just do it themselves, but that is a bad idea from a customer service point of view. They want to be the smartest guy in the room even if they are well out of their element, but can't actually do anything. That piece of paper is poisonous.

I remember one engineer asking me "why can't those stupid guitar companies make an acoustic bass that is loud enough!?" So I START to explain to him that it takes more energy to move air at lower frequencies than higher ones (duh) and he starts screaming "Yeah, I know that... I'm an engineer, not an idiot!" and he starts listing off phase reversals in the air as though it was relevant... if someone really thinks I'm too stupid to help them, then I'd prefer they didn't bother me with questions they apparently already know the answers to. The guy is probably still mad at guitar companies for not making loud acoustic basses because he still doesn't get it.

The best engineers I know have hobbies and personal pursuits to keep them sharp. Learning isn't achieved through certifications, but through work, troubleshooting and introspection. Their Monday-Friday job tends to be something incredibly mind-numbing, and then they do amazing things in their free time, like one guy I know who sets up an FM transmitter and programs his Christmas lights to blink in sync with the music (he's been doing this since the 80s)... just as part of his normal Christmas decorating. He built his own greenhouse, including etching his own circuit boards and programming all of the software, because he thought the price of snow peas had gotten absurd. I could go on forever - he is never without some over-the-top project. His day job? He proof-read manuals for a computer company. The engineers on here seem to be of that cut of the wool, too. They wouldn't be hanging around an internet forum talking about this stuff if it wasn't a labor of love, so I really wouldn't invoke that idiom on anyone here.

As for those other engineers, we should pity them because let's face it... they're already dead on the inside.

[Mike Sulzer]

I remember one engineer asking me "why can't those stupid guitar companies make an acoustic bass that is loud enough!?" So I START to explain to him that it takes more energy to move air at lower frequencies than higher ones (duh) and he starts screaming "Yeah, I know that... I'm an engineer, not an idiot!" and he starts listing off phase reversals in the air as though it was relevant...

Except it does not take more energy to move air at low frequencies than high frequencies. You could look at it as an impedance matching problem, requiring a larger surface area at low frequencies, not more energy..

When you rant against an entire profession, you just make yourself look bad.

[defaced]

The best engineers I know have hobbies and personal pursuits to keep them sharp. Learning isn't achieved through certifications, but through work, troubleshooting and introspection.

Funny thing about that.

Random story time. So the last company was a government R&D contractor. We did what's called G3 R&D, basically find practical uses for either novel ideas that needed developing, or to transition already made products to the primes. We also did alot of prototype work. You wanted a strange one off, we did it. So we're working for a big aerospace company and they want to get into a new market so they come to us to work on a prototype. During the courtship phase, they bring the design guys in and their only question was "what do you do in your spare time". One guy raced motorcycles, the other guy did model air planes, and the other two did some strange mechanical stuff when they got board. Basically the question was "were you an engineer before you got an engineering degree?" IMO, good question to ask. Which reminds me, the piece of paper doesn't make an engineer, it just says you were dumb enough to take all those really hard classes with a bunch of nerdy guys when you coulda gotten an BA degree and actually had girls in your class. Too bad alot of engineers don't get this. That said, it really irks me when people call themselves engineers when they've never sat in an engineering class and certainly couldn't hack it long enough to get the degree.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Except it does not take more energy to move air at low frequencies than high frequencies. You could look at it as an impedance matching problem, requiring a larger surface area at low frequencies, not more energy..

When you rant against an entire profession, you just make yourself look bad.

Had you read what I wrote, I'm not ranting against an entire profession.

Also, no impedance issues in an acoustic bass, Mike....

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

That said, it really irks me when people call themselves engineers when they've never sat in an engineering class and certainly couldn't hack it long enough to get the degree.

I'm not aware of anyone doing this. Is it common?