secrect old spec custom made AWC wire. Still sucks.

[WolfeMacleod]

18 pounds arrived the other day.
Still sucks. Horribly inconsistent, even after discussing with them exactly what I needed in a spool. After specifically stating that I needed between XXX and XXX ohms per thousand feet...it's not even close.

I remember why I stopped using them in 2003...

[J M Fahey]

Respectfully, why did you order from them again, considering the past bad experience?
I mean, if it were a couple ounces free sample .... but 18 pounds !!
Itīs about 3 million pickups ....
That said, just as a curiosity: what did you order and what did you get?
"Secret" and "old spec" Mojo aside, that wire might be still be usable anyway, although not what you expected.
Good luck.

[JGundry]

IMHO the variation in wire is part of getting a P.A.F. sound. If you have one winding station for everything then the variation is a hassle. But if you have a multiple bobbin winder then mic the wire, sort the spools and build the wire diameter variation into the pickup design. One reason T Tops sound different than P.A.F.'s is the more consistent wire diameter of poly wire as compared to older PE. The diameter variation also accounts for some of the coil offset and resistance variation with P.A.F.'s. The variation is random with vintage pickups but the boutique maker can control it as another tonal variable.

[big_teee]

Respectfully, why did you order from them again, considering the past bad experience?
I mean, if it were a couple ounces free sample .... but 18 pounds !!
Itīs about 3 million pickups ....
That said, just as a curiosity: what did you order and what did you get?
"Secret" and "old spec" Mojo aside, that wire might be still be usable anyway, although not what you expected.
Good luck.

Hey J M, Not sure if he was Bragging or complaining!
If I could use that much wire I would be Bragging.
T

[J M Fahey]

Definitely. Me too

What I donīt get either is the word "inconsistent".
What does it mean?
Even more: qualified as "horribly".

I mean, if I ordered, say, 10 1 pound spools, and one miked #43 , another #42 , another #44 and so on, *that* would be "inconsistent".
Or if some wholesaler filled my order with different brand spools he just happened to have in his warehouse.
But on the *same* spool, a single uninterrupted wire?
Obviously coming from the same die ....
Just donīt get it.

[PAF-Boy]

Had that wire a few years ago......

....and it had big variations in the diameter off from the spool.
So you never were shure wich DRC the coils came out after winding a batch with the same turns.
But mostly it was oversized.

[LtKojak]

Definitely. Me too

What I donīt get either is the word "inconsistent".
What does it mean?
Even more: qualified as "horribly".

I mean, if I ordered, say, 10 1 pound spools, and one miked #43 , another #42 , another #44 and so on, *that* would be "inconsistent".
Or if some wholesaler filled my order with different brand spools he just happened to have in his warehouse.
But on the *same* spool, a single uninterrupted wire?
Obviously coming from the same die ....
Just donīt get it.

When the wire is "consistent", in every part of the spool/s the resistivity per foot should be the same and "in spec", meaning the x value per foot shoud be no less than xxx or no more than xxx.

Having received wire not conform with the required specs, certainly is cause to get mad, not only because of the (lot of) money, also because of the time wasting for:
a) waiting for another batch to arrive, hopefully "in spec" this time...
b) R&D to make your products sound as expected with the "out of spec" wire, and maybe it won't even be possible!

If it happened to me, I'd be wanting somebody's head on a plate in no time flat...

[big_teee]

When the wire is "consistent", in every part of the spool/s the resistivity per foot should be the same and "in spec", meaning the x value per foot shoud be no less than xxx or no more than xxx.

Having received wire not conform with the required specs, certainly is cause to get mad, not only because of the (lot of) money, also because of the time wasting for:
a) waiting for another batch to arrive, hopefully "in spec" this time...
b) R&D to make your products sound as expected with the "out of spec" wire, and maybe it won't even be possible!

If it happened to me, I'd be wanting somebody's head on a plate in no time flat...

That said, are we talking Minute or severe differences?
Also Pepe, If they Screwed you once, would you let them do it again?
Don't shoot I'm just the Piano Player!
T

[LtKojak]

If they Screwed you once, would you let them do it again?

Seven years were passed... you tend to forget things, specially if they tell you they can supply you with EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT.

In my case, I can hold a grutch for centuries...

[big_teee]

Seven years were passed... you tend to forget things, specially if they tell you they can supply you with EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT.

In my case, I can hold a grutch for centuries...

Me Too.
Hell No I'm Not Forgetting!
Like the Cliche.
"Once, Shame On You! Twice Shame On Me!"
T

[WolfeMacleod]

Respectfully, why did you order from them again, considering the past bad experience?
I mean, if it were a couple ounces free sample .... but 18 pounds !!
Itīs about 3 million pickups ....

.

It's about a month's worth for me, maybe two. When I originally bought it, I purchased from a secondary supplier who was truely cluseless. When AWC re-introduced PE (they stopped for a long time) - I think via demand from PRS (don't know the details) , I inquired again and waited till they did another run.

That said, are we talking Minute or severe differences?
Also Pepe, If they Screwed you once, would you let them do it again?
Don't shoot I'm just the Piano Player!
T

I'd say it's a pretty severe difference. I'm getting variances of about .2k from coil to coil right now.
Normally, they're within .02k.

[big_teee]

.

It's about a month's worth for me, maybe two. When I originally bought it, I purchased from a secondary supplier who was truely cluseless. When AWC re-introduced PE (they stopped for a long time) - I think via demand from PRS (don't know the details) , I inquired again and waited till they did another run.



I'd say it's a pretty severe difference. I'm getting variances of about .2k from coil to coil right now.
Normally, they're within .02k.

I agree that is a pretty big difference.
Other than that does it sound pretty good in a guitar?
I looked at their site, I have been wanting to buy a good size roll of Natural HPN.
I Can get it from MWS, they sell the Elecktrisola brand.
On the AWS site I didn't see any Magnet wire.
I guess it's all special Run Stuff.
B_T

[JGundry]

I agree, .2k is pretty major from bobbin to bobbin. From spool to spool I can believe.

[big_teee]

You could probably charge more for this unique wire, and How no two PAF Counterfeit KnockOffs are exactly alike.
Especially if you HandWired.
T

[Possum]

What do you mean by vintage spec anyway. Thats quite a laundry list of things in vintage wire you don't find in modern wire. They can't duplicate the copper for one thing. AWC's insulation on all the stuff I got has always been way too thick, vintage wire wasn't like that. I have all the lab results from Elektrisola's work they did on about 14 modern and vintage PE from 1951 up to about 1965. Like everything, the wire changed around '65 pretty radically. All the PE I've ever bought is always fat on the outer part of the roll and gets skinny towards the core, due to tension during winding the roll. Some more than others show this and it becomes a problem on real full coils with a brand new roll. We are damn lucky ANY company is even making PE, MWS told me no one buys it but pickup makers. PAF wire I've saved has all been remarkably consistent diameter, except for one from 1960 that was rather astonishing.