If six was seven?

[Leonardo337]

First up, hello to you all, this is my first post here in the PU maker's and I have to say that I've enjoyed reading through all your informative and amusing threads so far in my lurking capacity.

Now, down to business... I was wondering recently about making my own pickup design for a seven string that I am currently making with help from a good friend of mine. I'm thinking double humbucker set with nice jazzy tones at the neck but plenty of crunchybark in the bridge for some nice chunka-chunka riffage when the gain is upped. (Please forgive the inept pre-school descriptions, I am new at this after all)

My question to you guys is this, would it be viable to have a seven-string guitar with a six pole-piece Pickup fitted?


Yeah, gotcha. I knew that would get the blood boiling, LoL. But really, I think it would be a nice visual if the humbucker had six 'mini-blade' poles across it, one side covering strings 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6 while the other side of the 'bucker covered strings 2-3, 4-5 and 6-7, almost like a P-bass type setup but overlapped in a single humbucker pickup. Imagine the scratchy-head looks as people notice the six pole-pieces underneath the seven string setup... Guaranteed conversation starter, no? LoL.

Please, in your own inimitable style, discuss/dismiss and give feedback... I've never seen anything like this before and I'd seriously like to know if something like this could work. Many thanks if you're still reading this and haven't decided I'm a no-brainer already, BTW, I just like to push boundaries and try different approaches to things... Must be the Gemini in me.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

My guess is that on the low B and high E you'd have funny tones and lower volume, since they would each have only one coil underneath while the middle five each had two... that is, if I'm reading your description right (I'm not sure I am).

Interesting idea on the visuals, but it does seem impractical. Maybe you can achieve a similar visual effect by slanting the blades in opposite directions, but still have equal coverage under the strings? Each pickup would effectively form an arrow. It could prove very hard to build, though. I shouldn't criticize - I painted myself into a similar corner with my own designs! They sound great, but a couple years later I'm still tooling up.

Be prepared for a few rounds of prototypes. You can't just pick up blank 7-string parts from the typical suppliers (as far as I'm aware) and some conventional wisdom on what works and doesn't work has to get tweaked to translate to 7-string. You may notice that with a lot of DiMarzio models, there are some significant design changes from a 6-string version to the 7-string version of a given "model" (Air Norton, etc) - I'm not sure if other brands are like that too or not.

[David Schwab]

I can't see the point of it. I'd either use full length blades, or seven poles.

[Leonardo337]

Thanks for the reply, Funk.. Is it not the case that humbucking gives a lower signal anyway, or is that a misunderstanding on my part? Wouldn't that balance out any differences between the strings? This is all still relatively new to me, hence the 'exuberance' of the idea... Yet, from what I understand so far, I think it could work. That's where you guys come in, LoL.

@David, have you never looked at a piece of design and wondered how it was achieved? Surely as a form of engineer yourself, you like to know how things work when you come across them? Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your input, but the whole point of the exercise is that it looks wrong and yet still works right (hopefully, LoL.) Isn't that obvious from the OP? :scratcheshead:

[LtKojak]

the whole point of the exercise is that it looks wrong and yet still works right

For what I see, it'll look wrong and work worse, if ever.

You need to know the rules before you can break'em...

HTH,

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Humbuckers don't give lower signals. By principle they don't necessarily give any more or less signal (in any significant way, there are small electronic nuances happening there) but by default because they are larger and hotter pickups they are often much louder. The total output won't compensate for bad string balance. If you have split coils like a P-bass and they overlap under a string, that/those string(s) are going to be significantly louder. That's why when they make 5-string p-bass pickups one is larger than the other - if they were both 3-string spaces long and both went under the A, that string would be ridiculously loud in comparison.

If this is all this new for you, I'd suggest finding some decent books out there and a hang of how the classic designs work and generally why they work. It becomes a lot easier to make educated guesses and evaluate ideas when you know what is out there already, and have a general idea of why it works.

[Mike Sulzer]

I think you could handle the potential differences in volume between the two outermost strings and the others by making both coils with screws rather than slugs and adjusting screw heights, down to the minimum for 2-6 and up as necessary for 1 and 7.

Your coil arrangement would of course give a very different sound on string 7 since it would be sampled at only one narrow location, while 2-6 would have two sample regions. This matters mostly only on the lower frequency strings; it would make little difference on string 1.
(Sampling the string: differences between single coil and humbuckers)

[big_teee]

Seems Like a Date with Futility to me!
Why not just make them full length.
And, the Cliche is" if 6 was 9"
B_T

[David Schwab]

@David, have you never looked at a piece of design and wondered how it was achieved? Surely as a form of engineer yourself, you like to know how things work when you come across them? Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your input, but the whole point of the exercise is that it looks wrong and yet still works right (hopefully, LoL.) Isn't that obvious from the OP? :scratcheshead:

Your outside two strings will sound a little different because they are mostly being sensed by only one of the coils.

People design things to work correctly. This can also go along with basic design of the looks of something, but I wouldn't do something just because it looks a certain way and doesn't work right.

And no one is really going to see the poles under the strings anyway.

[Mike Sulzer]

Seems Like a Date with Futility to me!
Why not just make them full length.
And, the Cliche is" if 6 was 9"
B_T

Oh, I though Leonardo was referring to Jimi's song all along. Especially since the topic of that song is relevant to the current protests.

This pickup idea seems like an interesting way to use existing coils if you do not want to make some special ones. Probably not the best way, if you are willing to make some coils.

[big_teee]

Oh, I though Leonardo was referring to Jimi's song all along. Especially since the topic of that song is relevant to the current protests.

This pickup idea seems like an interesting way to use existing coils if you do not want to make some special ones. Probably not the best way, if you are willing to make some coils.

He is I'm sure!
I was putting it in Retro!
If He was one of most of us, we would already have the band saw and Drill Press Running x 7
T

[Leonardo337]

You want me to make a nine-string as well now?

Good replies, guys... Thanks for the feedback (These pickup puns just keep appearing eh?) I know I could go and get myself a book and learn all about everything ever known about pickup technology but to me that stifles the creativity somewhat. You find it incredibly hard to step outside of the box if the box is all you've ever been shown, you know? I understand that if you're already aware of the pitfalls of a design then you needn't pursue it but sometimes I feel that throwing ideas around can open new avenues to similar results, quite acceptable despite being different to the original brief... If you know what I mean. Like Mike's reply above, which seems to make sense to me, about sensing less signal from the 'doubled' strings to compensate. Although I would like the poles visible under the strings, as in most uncovered 'buckers, so is there maybe a way around this using a different metallic compound for the outer/inner poles that would achieve the same effect?

I have to mention, and in no way an antagonistic statement, that this thread is intended to be an ideas soundboard type of deal and I'm in no way trolling or deliberately trying to wind any of you guys up here, if you feel that's the case then I apologise for coming across as that. Not my intention at all. I'd like to end up with something as close as possible to my original idea after garnering some advice and tips from your much more experienced (Thank you Jimi) Pickup engineers on here, Picking up (OMG, help me) a good deal of knowledge along the way that interests me too.

Thanks again for your help, guys.. Play on brother.

[big_teee]

You want me to make a nine-string as well now?

Good replies, guys... Thanks for the feedback (These pickup puns just keep appearing eh?) I know I could go and get myself a book and learn all about everything ever known about pickup technology but to me that stifles the creativity somewhat. You find it incredibly hard to step outside of the box if the box is all you've ever been shown, you know? I understand that if you're already aware of the pitfalls of a design then you needn't pursue it but sometimes I feel that throwing ideas around can open new avenues to similar results, quite acceptable despite being different to the original brief... If you know what I mean. Like Mike's reply above, which seems to make sense to me, about sensing less signal from the 'doubled' strings to compensate. Although I would like the poles visible under the strings, as in most uncovered 'buckers, so is there maybe a way around this using a different metallic compound for the outer/inner poles that would achieve the same effect?

I have to mention, and in no way an antagonistic statement, that this thread is intended to be an ideas soundboard type of deal and I'm in no way trolling or deliberately trying to wind any of you guys up here, if you feel that's the case then I apologise for coming across as that. Not my intention at all. I'd like to end up with something as close as possible to my original idea after garnering some advice and tips from your much more experienced (Thank you Jimi) Pickup engineers on here, Picking up (OMG, help me) a good deal of knowledge along the way that interests me too.

Thanks again for your help, guys.. Play on brother.

Don't take anything personal, Just some Cutting up in the Forum Process.
Welcome, and come back.
Terry

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I know I could go and get myself a book and learn all about everything ever known about pickup technology but to me that stifles the creativity somewhat. You find it incredibly hard to step outside of the box if the box is all you've ever been shown, you know?

I couldn't disagree more. It is like saying you paint better pictures if you don't have any colors, or you write better poetry if you don't speak the language. Having random ideas to go off of and try something new is great, but there is no reason that doing some homework will destroy that. Sure, Beethoven was deaf, but it doesn't mean that poking our your ears will make you write better music. If you do your homework with an open mind, you'll end up with more ideas, not fewer. Having fewer ideas as you learn more comes from lazy people who think that if they have someone teach them something, ideas will magically come to them.

[big_teee]

Don't be too hard on him, He had an Idea and was trying to act on it.
The part that Leonardo didn't clear up is if he just had an Idea or is he a winder with an Idea?
Most of the time If you will go ahead and wind something you answer 90% of your own questions.
Also for every answer you have you usually have a new question and a possible idea for something new.
Good Luck,
Terry