What do you guys know about the "Rosie Wrap" early 50s winding style?

[NightWinder]

I personally think, If you believe in your product, construction, materials..etc and guarantee your product for life....You should claim the fame that your pickups are the best. Peroid! Confidence can be mistaken for arrogance, but they are different. There is nothing wrong woth believing in what you make. Like Possum said...Fuck everyone elses shit...Listen to this.......Thats what it is, and will be. Fly your flag hard as hell! Believe in everything you do..... I sure don't spend countless hrs dialing in offsets, material etc without some kind of settlement. Each their own.....In your mind, you make the best/I see no problem in claiming that. Self biased? Yes, but with proper intentions, and results you have every right.

[mick]

I think you are wrong , yes it's good to be confident in your abilities etc but to claim it as the best in the world just because you put a bit of work in ? don't think so... if anyone is the judge of whether your product is good or not it is your customers, not yourself , I don't think you could honestly say otherwise because without them you are nothing... For sure fuck everyone else's shit but if that's what everybody is buying well you are fucked , whether you think yours are the best or not..

Mick

[kevinT]

It could be good or it could be a bad thing...it depends

Anyone can advertise anything (within legal limits) about their product...even claiming that it is the best. However, I think if they do they better have something to back it up, or else, they could be setting themselves up for failure... The marketplace weeds out the crap....it may not be instantanious but it will over time.

If a pickup maker actually has tested, for example, a majority of Tele pickups on the market and the maker feels that his Tele pickup is superior based on the results...there is nothing wrong with stating that it is the best. However, if they do state that it is the best and if it isn't a great sounding pickup, it will hurt the maker and piss off folks who have bought it because you have let them down....and you won't get anymore sales from those folks. With pickups being a product that produces something that is subjective, i would do this with extreme caution.

But there are other ways to say that your product is superior and not sound that you're pompous if that is the way you want to go. For example, get a group of independent players together to test them...and if some choose your pickup...you can state the results of their evaluation in your advertising message e.g.,.."3 out of 4 players choose Joe Blow's Tele pickup over the top brands" ...etc...

My guitar maintenance kit will be coming out in a nice box soon. In order to gauge my competition's products, I have bought Fender's, Jim Dunlops, Planet Waves and some other company's guitar care products and have tested them extensively. Based on the results, the products in my kit truly out perform my competition's products but I will never say it on the box or in my advertising message. Word of mouth is very powerful, and i will let folks judge themselves and spread the word that way. I think it is more credible if customers say it is the best than to have it come from my mouth.

just my 2 cents worth

[kevinT]

The ultimate shootout is already happening, and it's called the marketplace. My pickups are selling very well indeed, and according to my email inbox the nationwide buzz is steadily growing. I may be under the radar right now, but I want it that way because I am using my time finetuning my own recipes, building machinery and prototyping new models. As for using someone else's parts in a shootout... I don't think so. You wouldn't catch Fender and Duncan using each other's parts, would you? I am a machinist in 'real life' so I machine my own parts from stock, I don't buy them. Sorry.

In the end, talk is cheap. Anyone can join groups and 'create buzz'.

Ken

Why apoligize for the truth....if someone gets offended because you have a strong marketing strategy and business approach, IMO too bad...


The fact is, there are a lot of pickup makers making some great sounding pickups.

And with tone being as subjective as it is, you'll never get folks to agree on which pickup is the best. ....Just let customers do it....its easier.

If customers don't like the tone of a particular pickup, look at it as being a good thing and an opportunity to change some things about the pickup to get it to sound good....Feedback from customers is free information and a gauge on how well you're doing.

[NightWinder]

Your coo Ken! Farting in the elevator bit with hot women.....That would be a funny to take a picture. LMAO. Thought about that shit all day dude!

[NightWinder]

Sure

Well, to each their own....in the eye of the beholder. Just back it up! Me, my brain would say" I gotta try this shit" . If its the best I've heard......well damn, you have a loife long customer. If It ain't shit, well public bashing goes a long way. A whisper becomes a shout on the net!!! You know what, I may buy one just to see.....now that would give you grounds for critisism.

[trioderob]

cry babies

what a bunch of "prima donna" cry babies on this forum!



and no "POSSUM"

I am not a troll and I dont work for Don Mare.

I was only trying to get more info about this type of pickup.

good lord!

[kevinT]

what a bunch of "prima donna" cry babies on this forum!

and no "POSSUM"

I am not a troll and I dont work for Don Mare.

I was only trying to get more info about this type of pickup.

good lord!

Nino.....get me a tissue....


no serious....

Don't take it personally dude. I wouldn't say folks are cry babies...the members of this forum are just really passionate about what they do and pickup making in general.

There are a lot of myths out there about pickups and the folks that know the history of pickup making at Fender (i'm not one of them...but i'm learning) and are highly experienced winders have strong opinions. ...and they believe the rosie wrap to be one of those myths.

The rosie wrap, I take it, is a winding technique. Have you asked Don what it is or what it entails?

Actually, I want to know....Hey Don what are the characteristics or purpose of the Rosie Wrap?.. What do you try to accomplish while winding with this techique in terms of sonic characteristics? I'm being serious....

Threads on this forum can sometimes take on a life of their own and can veer off in various directions and sometimes can get brutal for the folks not used to it.

Don't get offended. ...and I would recommend visiting often....you will actually learn a lot about pickups.

[trioderob]

its about money

Nino.....get me a tissue....


no serious....

Don't take it personally dude. I wouldn't say folks are cry babies...the members of this forum are just really passionate about what they do and pickup making in general.

There are a lot of myths out there about pickups and the folks that know the history of pickup making at Fender (i'm not one of them...but i'm learning) and are highly experienced winders have strong opinions. ...and they believe the rosie wrap to be one of those myths.

The rosie wrap, I take it, is a winding technique. Have you asked Don what it is or what it entails?

Actually, I want to know....Hey Don what are the characteristics or purpose of the Rosie Wrap?.. What do you try to accomplish while winding with this techique in terms of sonic characteristics? I'm being serious....

Threads on this forum can sometimes take on a life of their own and can veer off in various directions and sometimes can get brutal for the folks not used to it.

Don't get offended. ...and I would recommend visiting often....you will actually learn a lot about pickups.

I guess its about money.
who ever winds the best pickups and can market them
gets to put alot of money in their pocket.

[Mark Hammer]

I'm joining this thread rather late, but it strikes me that one of the paradoxes of "unusual" winding approaches is that exact duplication of essentially random winding is a bit of an oxymoron. I don't mean that you can't wind randomly two times in a row, but that it seems nigh on impossible to wind randomly the same way in a consistent manner. The Rosie Wrap may very well be a real thing. That it is a consistently repeatable thing is...well...another thing.

Or am I missing something here?

[ken]

There are no crybabies here. Get real.

I view these other winders not only as competitors but some as friends, and their views matter to me. If this concept is alien to you, it's not my problem, it's yours.

I do guarantee my pickups (materials and workmanship) for life to the original purchaser, and I'm proud of it. Damn right. I can do this because I do make all my parts, and I refuse to let shoddy work 'out the door'. I have destroyed pickup parts just because of finish flaws many times, and my wife thinks I'm nuts for offering this guarantee, but I have never had a failure due to M&W. Not once.

My pickups are not 'the best', they are simply an alternative design to all the others out there. The pickup is just one link in the chain from the player's fingers to the listener's ears, and any issues in any link can totally trash your sound. I make the best pickups I possibly can, sell them at what I consider fair, and let the people decide. Note that there are no 'testimonials' in my site, any fool can write 'E.C. says...' or 'J.H. says...' on a website and some may think that certain people play their pickups. Others may scatter long lines of airy adjectives (aka swamp gas) all over their sites in an attempt to get people to 'listen with their eyes'. Not me. The best advertising is word of mouth, and not just because it's free.

Don Mare is right though, people DO link here from the reat of the Web. FWIW, I have had five orders for sets of pickups so far today, and four of these have said they managed to read this site. Maybe I should thank him.

One more thing... I've been stinkin' rich and dirt floor poor, and poor is way more fun. And you can quote me.

Ken

[trioderob]

Rosie Wrap

come on guys



IS THE ROSIE WRAP REAL?????????


1) WAS THERE A WOMAN NAMED ROSIE?
2) DID SHE DO THE YARNBALL WRAP?
3) IF THIS IS FALSE WHY DO THE TELE PUPS FROM 52
SOUND SO GREAT?

[Mark Hammer]

come on guys

IS THE ROSIE WRAP REAL?????????

1) WAS THERE A WOMAN NAMED ROSIE?
2) DID SHE DO THE YARNBALL WRAP?
3) IF THIS IS FALSE WHY DO THE TELE PUPS FROM 52
SOUND SO GREAT?

I think the question you have to start with is what may have changed in ANY Tele pickup with the passage of nearly 50 years. For example, does the insulation coating shrink with time, and the initially snug semi-random windings become juuuuuuuuuust loose enough to produce useful microphonics? Is some sort of semi-random winding method "friendlier" to things that happen to pickups with the passage of time? If it is, is it possible to mimic what happens in those winding-types within a shorter period of time? If a "Rosie-wrapped" pickup does me no good unless I can wait 40 years (something I don't have if I look at my family health history), then what bloody use is it to me?

The problem we face whenever making comparisons of these sorts is that we never used those pickups the same way at the time they were manufactured. We didn't use the same gauge strings and we certainly didn't play them nearly as loud.

I'm not saying that there ISN'T anything different about them, but we have no useful basis for saying "This is how they sounded in 195x and this is why they sounded that way". We are stuck with what they are NOW and how we use them NOW.

I used to work in cognitive neuropsychology, and this problem is a bit like getting the brain of someone who is highly skilled in math or any other activity and examining it after they die at age 78. Is their brain the way it is because they spent a lifetime doing math (and we know activity changes wiring and affects cell growth), or were their brains like this from the start and that's why they spent a lifetime enjoying and exploring mathematics? Given that we have no dependable examples of them tinkering with calculus when they were 2, it's kind of hard to draw strong inferences. Same thing with pickups. We generally have NO recorded examples of people using those pickups at that time in the same manner as we use them now.

[mick]

Well , she was a whole lotta rosie , whole lotta Rosie , a whole lotta womauauaua,an..badadadadadada..

Yep , things can get heated , it can look like everybody is squabbling we all love what we do and it can seem that it's petty sometimes but it's good that people can say what they think on here...would it be better if we all just agreed on everything ? just so we don't offend anyone or upset someones day..it's not intended to do that I wouldn't think and if it is then rise above it , respect for your competitors is very healthy
but it doesn't mean you have to agree with them..and it's not about money...if it was do you think that everybody would still do it? some on here ( and elsewhere ) would have done it tough for years before starting to make any money from it , some never will but if you do well done , you deserve it

Mick

[NightWinder]

Very True. I love high ohm metal, but am equally at home with vintage specs too. Some here would never hit past 12k, thinking its a waste of time, and useless. I have wound past 30k with retained highs.Thats their opinion. Thats all. I dont get pissed, just happy. Makes for good times.