cutting forbon again.

[jonson]

Called round to see a friend this evening Who makes saddles and gun holsters
From hard leather about 1/4" thick. Spotted a machine he called a clicker press which had cookie style cutters which were just hard steel blades screwed round wooden formers. Going back tomorrow with a bit of Forbon and gonna give it a try as he says it has a lot of pressure. Take some pics of his tooling and will post the results.(Love the smell of his workshop as well) made it worth going.
Jonson.

[NightWinder]

I'm in need of a gun holster too!! Yeah!!!

[David Schwab]

This is probably how Fender stamped out their parts. We covered this before... there's a photo at Bill Lawrence's site showing a guy using an arbor press to stamp out coilforms.

It shouldn't be too hard to get a small arbor press and make some dies.

[jonson]

could be a way to do it.

All I can say is it worked. Stamped a wierd shape from one of his dies but the couple of pics I took I will have to downsize before I post. His press has a lot of power at 20 ton. so did not have any probs but what would occur in a smaller arbour press I do not know. David you are probably right as Leo I know did rely on a lot of punch press machines used them for wacking out sctratchplates as well but if you guys do not want to go the way of a press try another way. Earlier on you said you could use a router David and to my mind that is an easy route if you apply the industrial method. To me it is no different to knocking out Truss rod bell plate covers and I can do 12 of them in about 6 mins. Suspend your router above a flat surface and have a removeable pin to match the cutter in the table surface. This is the basics of an overhead pin router (not that I'm trying to teach you guys something you allready know here.) I have a ply board about 12 inches square with 12 bell plate patterns glued to the underside with a frame round the edge to stop the shit going underneath. On top I stick down in the positions the cutter has allready marked 12 Bits of Plastic with double sided and using a 1/4 downcut spiral carbide bit chomp them out. Patterns against pin and cutter following above and hands holding board total safety. The use of a downcut spiral bit is that it's pushing down on the work all the time and the double sided won't let go. Stick a set of guide bushes in the underside as well and a pin in the base of you drill press and sort the magnet holes at the same time.
Be back one night with some pics.
Jonson

[Possum]

Fender...

Leo did not use a clicker press to cut Forbon, he had real punch press dies made and had a real punch press. This is another reason why I suggest you guys read the history written by the people who were there. There are 3 good books by the top Fender people and good photos as well. I don't know enough about the clicker press dies to know if you could accurately cut the right shape. If you look at any fender forbon shapes they are combinations of alot of curves but also sharp corners and dead straight sections. The clicker dies are made with flexible cutting blades that come in rolls. It would seem to me you might be able to do a wooden form and fit the blade with some creative bending and such to make the die but it would take some experience probably to pull it off. the presses are about $1200, there are Ebay sellers who have this stuff. Might work, might not. Personally I think the blades would wear out real fast, Forbon is tough stuff, so you'd have to make new dies frequently which could be a major hassle.

You would also have to punch the holes independently of the main shape and from what I've seen of DiMarzio flatwork this is how its done in industry as well.

Routing Forbon compared to pickguard stuff is two different things, Forbon is real grabby with router bits, I've had my templates with forbon attached flung into walls etc. from not paying attention :-) Cutting plastic pickguard stuff is like cutting butter in comparison.

I think in less than 2 years the small laser cutters will come down to about $2000 and all our problems will be solved.....

[jonson]

never had a problem myself.

Wasn't saying Fender did it on a clicker press just that they did press them out and a lot of pressure needed. I have knocked out a shape clean on a clicker press as a trial but whether it would last yes you may be right blades would probably shag out. But as to routing never ever had a problem and I do rout out some pretty strong gear including Aluminium and all goes well as long as you are not leaving more than a few mm to come off at the cutting stage.
Allways chop them down into smaller sections first as I have used forbon for rear control cavity and switch cavity covers quite a lot. Think a lot of it is down to the use of downcut spiral and also angled shear cutters as there is no lift on the workpiece, pressure is down, and thats where it seems to stay.

[Possum]

>>>>>>>

When I looked up clicker presses the description I found was that they are used to cut FLEXIBLE materials like leather, plastic etc. Forbon isn't really a flexible soft material so its kind of outside of what those presses are best at. From what I've read I don't think I'd spend the money trying one out. You can get a small punch press around 10-15 ton for not that much money, the money comes in having the punch dies made. I'm waiting for cheap laser cutters myself....

[jonson]

probably right.

you are probably thinking in the right direction for the future Possum the clicker was just a thought and did do a clean job. I hope you have success
with a lazer iv'e got access to one to cut some covers that I am doing which is a bit like using a steam hammer to crack a peanut. a dozen covers being done by an 8ft x 4ft bed lazer but the finish is super clean. Nightwinder can confirm that. Had another company cut some acrylic on their lazer and that was clean as well but cannot do that or forbon on this one as the different extraction exhaust system needed for toxic fumes coming off plastics and composits adds a hell of a price to the system. The one thing I keep coming up with is doing my own drawings and putting them on disc as DWG files always cuts down the price and you just end up paying for hourly rates which isn't too bad.
Jonson.

[mkat]

Leo did not use a clicker press to cut Forbon, he had real punch press dies made and had a real punch press. This is another reason why I suggest you guys read the history written by the people who were there. There are 3 good books by the top Fender people and good photos as well.

Dave, which 3 books are you referring to?

[Possum]

books....

I'll have to use my memory so go search Amazon.
One is by Bill Carson, who just passed away, he helped develop the strat and did all the live testing on them. Another book by Forrest White, without whom none of us would ever have heard of Leo Fender, he was the business genius who made Leo a success. The other by George Fullerton, a book about G&L but really about Fender history with Leo all the way through G&L times til his death. If you want to know the inside story and some little pickup making secrets those 3 books are priceless...

[mkat]

Thanks Dave, appreciate it. I'm done searching.

[David Schwab]

Search Amazon for "Leo Fender". I happened to have had these bookmarked...

Fender: The Inside Story by Forrest White

Guitar Legends: The Evolution of the Guitar from Fender to G & L, by George Fullerton

Guitars From George & Leo: How Leo Fender and I Built G&L Guitars, by George Fullerton

Bill Carson - My Life and Times with Fender Musical Instruments

[Possum]

cool.....

Yeah thats them but there's one there by Fullerton I'd not seen, probably alot of duplication in the G&L book, but I'll pick it up, very good reading.....

[mkat]

Search Amazon for "Leo Fender". I happened to have had these bookmarked...

Fender: The Inside Story by Forrest White

Guitar Legends: The Evolution of the Guitar from Fender to G & L, by George Fullerton

Guitars From George & Leo: How Leo Fender and I Built G&L Guitars, by George Fullerton

Bill Carson - My Life and Times with Fender Musical Instruments

That's what I picked up too. Except that "Guitar Legends..." book isn't available at amazon.