Originally posted by Possum
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Laminated Blades
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Originally posted by Possum View PostFender single coils were hand wound up til '65, then CBS auto wound them from then on. Is one superior to the other? No. I just did a '1965 strat repro set and copied the machine wound I found on a '65 and they sound awesome. You can do a hand wind on an auto winder but it has to be pretty much infinitely programmable which almost none of them are. The tone is not in the machine winder, its in the knowledge person operating the machine.It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon
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There's also alot of wrong information in that book ;-) I rewound a set of strat pickups from '65 a couple were grey bottoms and one black bottom. The black was hand wound and the greys were all machine wound. Most of the data on pickups in there doesn't match up with what I found in real vintage examples, good book otherwise.http://www.SDpickups.com
Stephens Design Pickups
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Originally posted by David King View PostIf only there were a way to cut the pre-laminated steel into the blade shapes without messing up the insulating layers. Perhaps you could work with continuous rolls of steel strapping tape of the correct width and then chop them off at the right length without delaminating them or causing a short internally.
As mentioned above, some of them, usually ones that serve the prototyping market, will provide the metal sheet as well, and I do recall some that offered silicon steel, permalloy, mild steel, et al.
One can also do it yourself, but I bet it's cheaper to hire this out.
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Originally posted by FunkyKikuchiyo View PostDoing a few for fun/practice/experiments aren't that much harder than solid blades. It may even be easier depending on what tools you have available. The trouble comes when you do them en masse. You just need to go slow enough in shaping that you don't burn the insulation. I do the same thing I'd do when grinding stainless steel fret ends: just rotate through pieces and do them a bit at a time. As you're working on other pieces, they'll have a chance to cool off and you do the rotation again and again.
Tap water works well for this kind of grinding - lots of white-wheel grinders for high-speed steel tool bits keep the wheel wet to prevent overheating the workpiece. One should also use the correct kind of grinding wheel - it makes a big difference.
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Originally posted by Possum View PostThere's also alot of wrong information in that book ;-) I rewound a set of strat pickups from '65 a couple were grey bottoms and one black bottom. The black was hand wound and the greys were all machine wound.It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon
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Yes they were machine winding the grey bottoms in '65 and also using up the older remaining hand wound black bottoms.
You don't need to cut laminated blades any special way, I cut mine on the band saw, then hit it with the disk sander, then hand sand the edges on a flat surface. Of course if you have extremely thin non-conductive material between the blades, then you could have major problems cutting the stuff. I don't recommend making them with just a varnish or extremely thin insulation as you'd probably end up with extremely bright sounding blade that way. Maybe. I use a certain kind of paper, but then thats where the problem of making the sandwich perfectly uniform thickness with epoxy. I made two blocks of thick plexiglass, make the blade way oversize and have two C-clamps and bind them down tight. Sometimes they come out uniform and sometimes they don't ;-) It might help to use acetate or maybe mylar insulation material, but not sure epoxy might melt that stuff too.... The other thing is the metal leaves have to be absolutely spotlessly grease free and it helps to rough them up with sandpaper or you get blades where part of the epoxy didn't stick well to the metal. OVerall they are a hassle to make but worth the effort if you're just making it for yourself....http://www.SDpickups.com
Stephens Design Pickups
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Originally posted by Mike Sulzer View PostHas anyone considered cutting the blade the other way? That is, across the short dimension, so that you have several short blades, kind of like individual pole pieces, but touching except for a thin insulating layer between.
If you think about how a laminated transformer is constructed, the laminations are parallel to the magnetic field which makes them, perpendicular to the eddy currents. Funky brings up the Kinman patent and how they look like "staples". Right on!
I trust Joe Gwinn when he says that the eddy currents in a blade pickup flow around the perimeter of the blade. By notching the blade, the eddy currents will form smaller loops.
As far as the objective of laminating blades goes, is one not enough? What do you hope to achieve, more inductance? This might need to be tested. Mike Sulzer has an excellent analogy of how the air gap limits the amount of Inductance gains one can practicably achieve by increasing core permeability. If you look at the equation for inductance, the permeability is a huge multiplier... However, because we are creating Transducers, we need a working gap to sense the string... another name for an air gap in our magnetic circuit. The permeability of air versus the permeability of our core are analogous to resistors in a voltage divider. The same analogy(described infinitely better by Mike himself ) Would apply to increasing the permeable mass... What ever you gain by increased permeable mass, must still be weighed against the permeability of air. You just might not gain much at all. Never know until you try
Cheers,
Ethan
Sorry for not providing the actual Mike Sulzer quote, I don't remember which thread I read it in. Pure gold, Mike!
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Originally posted by CRU JONES View PostAs far as the objective of laminating blades goes, is one not enough? What do you hope to achieve, more inductance?It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon
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Re using stainless steel for blade cores...bearing in mind how woefully unmagnetic stainless is vs mild steel, I'm curious whether anyone has opinions on the pros/cons of using mild steel vs stainless as a blade core?
Also, why is silicon steel/iron so difficult to source (5 tons minimum order anyone?)
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Some stainless steels such as the 400 series are magnetic. If you use such a material, you might have to do some experimentation to get the resuts you want.
Originally posted by peskywinnets View PostRe using stainless steel for blade cores...bearing in mind how woefully unmagnetic stainless is vs mild steel, I'm curious whether anyone has opinions on the pros/cons of using mild steel vs stainless as a blade core?
Also, why is silicon steel/iron so difficult to source (5 tons minimum order anyone?)
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Originally posted by peskywinnets View PostAlso, why is silicon steel/iron so difficult to source (5 tons minimum order anyone?)
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Originally posted by Joe Gwinn View PostBecause you are asking the wrong question, I suspect. Instead, look for transformer laminations made of silicon steel. There are standard sizes, so many people stock them."UP here in the Canada we shoot things we don't understand"
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Originally posted by peskywinnets View PostRe using stainless steel for blade cores...bearing in mind how woefully unmagnetic stainless is vs mild steel, I'm curious whether anyone has opinions on the pros/cons of using mild steel vs stainless as a blade core?
The weird part is they add nickel to stainless steel, and then it's not magnetic anymore, even though nickel is ferromagnetic.It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon
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Originally posted by copperheadroads View PostI wonder If the silicon steel bandsaw blades that i throw away would be any good for laminating a blade ?It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon
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