Faith-Based Electronics (IMO Addendum)

[rjb]

...do a search on YouTube for some of these dumb comparison tests of caps...What you will notice in the tests is that there is no difference in tone...

Here's a similar situation...

I can go to Jensen's site to check out the tonal differences between their speaker models Sound Samples | Jensen Loudspeakers

But the thing is... I'm listening to the samples *through a pair of 2-1/2" computer speakers*
(not to mention all the chi-killing conversions required to squeeze the sound down the world wide intertube).

-rb

[Possum]

Yep thats a thing allright ;-) Plus you don't know how they mic'd the speakers or what mic they used. I did see one useful speaker demo on YouTube, where they put each speaker in a specific rig, mic'd it in exactly the same position in the same spot, played the same riff, same guitar. Sure, its YouTube so the sound isn't pristine, but the differences between the speakers were pretty obvious. Obvious enough that I bought a Celestion Alnico Gold that I use now for alot of demo's on YouTube. Tone cap differences would be hard to record for YouTube, some have subtle differences you hear in specific ways you pick the strings etc. and what happens in the more trebly stuff that doesn't come across too good on YouTube.

Anyway the tone cap subject always gets a little heated. Funny thing is that five years ago any capacitor from Radio Shack was fine by me ;-) I didn't believe anything otherwise. But then gradually I started proving or disproving things for myself, tone caps are so important, pots are important, wire is important, switches too. I prefer vintage simple wiring because it was relatively clean and fairly transparent. The Jensens are cool and worth a try, the others especially the Cornell Dubilliers and Sprague bees are just so highly over rated and way over hyped in comparison. My amp buddy told me the CD's aren't all that great in amps either. Its going to be fun to try out different things in this little Princeton I'm going to build, caps especially........looking foward to that!

[Mike Sulzer]

Yep thats a thing allright ;-) ... you hear in specific ways you pick the strings etc. ...

Yes, the best way to make different sounds is to pick the strings differently. And if you know which cap is in there, your subconscious knows exactly how to make it sound. The only potentially believable result when the player knows which cap is in the circuit is if the result is "no difference", and even then you have to wonder if picking could remove differences!

A real test must involve many changes between the two test caps, with the player ignorant of what is happening and doing the best job possible of playing the same all the time.

Important clues that something is wrong here: speakers are complicated devices. When you use a 12" woofer out to 5 KHz, you have, in addition to the distinct low frequency resonance, a whole host of gross resonances associated with the cone break up, as well as some more subtle effects in the mid range. Small changes in any part of the manufacturing process can make big differences. If speaker differences are merely pretty obvious, then capacitor differences are down in the mud. A capacitor is just a rolled up sheet of insulator with a thin conducting layer on one side. There are "interesting " effects as you approach the break down of the insulator, and there are a variety of ways in which a cap can be "broken" (mainly bad connections to the foil), but there is just not w whole lot to work with here at guitar voltages.

[J M Fahey]

Just out of curiosity I checked the Angela page.
2 things are painfully visible:
1) there's NO guy there saying

experiment combing one copper foil with one aluminum foil and for his uses, said it was truly magic for his audio gear.

*Maybe* reading comments which are not written on a page *is* an admission test at an Alzheimer Clinic !! Who knows?
2) Angela DOES say:

"Tone Cap Tips
In your guitar the Tone Cap rolls off the highs. The higher the value the more highs are rolled off."

so not even they are saying that your guitar will be louder or sound better or whatever.
I guess the comment on (1) applies here too. Sigh!!

[JoeM]

Just wait til you hear my special movichcap P.I.S.O. vintage caps in your Les Paul!

p.i.s.o. = paper in snake oil

[CRU JONES]

I can't claim to have tried any of these experiments, or care that much. However we are quite sensitive to small changes in tone control settings. I'll go through a few songs pissed about my tone only to realize my tone control is on 9 instead of 10. Bingo, good mood again. In my head? maybe. I'm not sure a Tone cap can provide this much change because I haven't experimented with different types. I understand the theory why it shouldn't, but... Maybe someone should try it. This has been rehashed before and the technical analyzers still haven't tried it, from what I can tell.

The other reason I want to try it is because I LOVE the sound of my tone control on ZERO. Through a high gain amp, the IM is just heavenly! I probably should have tried this by now...

For the pickups I wind I don't like the treble bleed, or 50's wiring. I like Modern wiring with my volume controls a click or two down from max. Tone controls either all the way up or all the way down. For caps I just use whatever...Though, this may change. I like .022uF. I would like to try .015uF. I have tried .01uF; it sounded sounded dull and boring to me. This is the IMO addendum thread, so; this is ALL IMO

Keep rockin'!

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I am looking for some of the (Real- NOS 50's string) for winding single coils. Any suggestions as to where to obtain this?

[rjb]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding! Over One Hundred Posts Served!

I'd like to take a moment to commemorate this historic milestone.

When I opened this humble thread, I expected, perhaps, a single reply- like "Ha, ha, very funny, now go away".

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that this meager gag could blossom into a spectacle worthy of the WWF
(World Wrestling Federation or World Wildlife Fund- take your pick).

But it is now obvious that souls had been yearning for a refuge where, in Unitarian Universalism-ist spirit (paraphrasing Wikipedia now) individuals are unified by their shared "free and responsible search for truth and meaning", rather than obedience to an authoritarian requirement (e.g. scientific principle or common sense).

Three cheers to the members who "got it" and took this thread in its intended spirit.

Special thanks to heckler extraordinaire "Flame-Thrower" Salvarsan, who kept passions burning when they threatened to die out.

An Amana freezer and a trip to the R&R Hall of Fame to Possum, for his driest of wit and tallest of tales. Magic caps, indeed.
I wager my leg's been pulled so long, I'll be limping for life. Great job.

And to all who posted verifiable factual information: Yawn, whatever.

May The Force be with you,
-rb

[Possum]

Pretty funny comments ;-) Sure are alot of experts on tone caps no one has actually tried, experiments no one did, its definitely a forum ;-)

[Steve Conner]

I'd rather not do the experiment at all than do it wrong, watch this space!

[LtKojak]

I'd like to take a moment to commemorate this historic milestone.

When I opened this humble thread, I expected, perhaps, a single reply (e.g. "Ha, ha, very funny, now go away").

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that this meager gag could blossom into a spectacle worthy of the WWF
(World Wrestling Federation or World Wildlife Fund- take your pick).

But it is now obvious that souls had been yearning for a refuge where, in Unitarian Universalism-ist spirit (paraphrasing Wikipedia now) individuals are unified by their shared "free and responsible search for truth and meaning", rather than obedience to an authoritarian requirement (e.g. scientific principle or common sense).

Three cheers to the members who "got it" and took this thread in its intended spirit.

Special thanks to heckler extraordinaire "Flame-Thrower" Salvarsan, who kept passions burning when they threatened to die out.

An Amana freezer and a trip to the R&R Hall of Fame to Possum, for his driest of wit and tallest of tales. Magic caps, indeed.
I wager my leg's been pulled so long, I'll be limping for life. Great job.

And to all who posted verifiable factual information: Yawn, whatever.

May The Force be with you,
-rb

This only proves how much people LOVES good BS stories and the lenghts some go just to try to to convice others that they possess some kind of secret that put'em beyond the rest of us, mere mortals.

I even think this is recorded in the human genoma project, the DNA BS pair.

Your Honor, I rest my case

[rjb]

I even think this is recorded in the human genoma project, the DNA BS pair.

AKA the marketing gene.

[rjb]

...watch this space!

I have been watching.
It's very relaxing, like meditation.
Maybe you could market this idea.

[rjb]

An Amana freezer and a trip to the R&R Hall of Fame to Possum, for his driest of wit and tallest of tales.

Make that the P.T. Barnum Museum?

[David Schwab]

Special thanks to heckler extraordinaire "Flame-Thrower" Salvarsan, who kept passions burning when they threatened to die out.

Hey, you start a thread, you own it!

I thought it was humor, until people start believing in fairy tales. But thats when the REAL fun starts!

Anyway, I realized a had a vinyl rip of the song Hush by Deep Purple. I also have the remastered CD version.

So here for your listening pleasure, is an A/B of the two tracks. It obviously starts with the vinyl, since you can hear the surface noise.

I was not able to get them in exact synch because the two tracks were slightly different lengths,

Hush-Vinyl vs CD

I'd also like to say that the CD seems a little bass heavy, but hey, you can actually hear the bass. The vinyl is all midrange. And also as they say for CDs of old recordings, the higher resolution of the CD may reveal limitations in the source material.

But the CD version is much clearer sounding, and more full range. being such an old recording (1968) the dynamics are just OK.