high tpl and overlapped wire in layer, common practice?

[-Elepro-]

excuse me for my english

some days ago copperheadroads pm me (excuse me for late in reply i'm very busy these days) to say that my controller is not enough accurate about tpl selecting....

he reports that he can not have small increments in tpl selecting when he use high tpl....

this is because my controller has 0.01mm increments in traverse pitch selecting (but i doubt we have mechanics that can have this precision without ballscrew ).....
for example if you have 6mm bobbin height you will have

600 tpl @ 0.01 pitch
300 tpl @ 0.02 pitch
200 tpl @ 0.03 pitch
150 tpl @ 0.04 pitch
120tpl @ 0.05 pitch
100 tpl @ 0.06 pitch
85 tpl @ 0.07 pitch
75 tpl @ 0.08 pitch
66 tpl @ 0.09 pitch
60 tpl @ 0.10 pitch
54 tpl @ 0.11 pitch
50 tpl @ 0.12 pitch
46 tpl @ 0.13 pitch
43 tpl @ 0.14 pitch
40 tpl @ 0.15 pitch
37 tpl @ 0.16 pitch
35 tpl @ 0.17 pitch
33 tpl @ 0.18 pitch
31 tpl @ 0.19 pitch
30 tpl @ 0.20 pitch
28 tpl @ 0.21 pitch
27 tpl @ 0.22 pitch and so on.....

then + or - 1 tpl increments from here

Copperheadroads you have very high increments in tpl because you use 130 tpl for humbucker bobbin....
but if we use awg 42 we can not make 130 tpl in humbucker bobbin unless overlap wire in each layer (awg 42 is about 0.07 mm * 130 tpl = 9 mm bobbin height .... but a humbucker bobbin is about 6mm).....


i post this in the forum to ask everyone if is it common practice to use high tpl with overlapped wire in each layer


thanks

[enkindler]

I am wondering if he wants 130tpl or 133 so that they can pack higher.

If you have good backlash numbers to get your dwell correct you should be able to move less than .01mm or just adjust your .01mm steps in relation to the spindle rotation to get that type of resolution even with acme screws.

Or to be clear I think, and this is a guess, that it is the turns to step ratio they want more flexibility on.

[RedHouse]

...is it common practice to use high tpl with overlapped wire in each layer...

It's common practice for people to do whatever they need/want to do to get their job done.

As I said to you before way back in the 1st round of your gauss-meter programming, this is why "software testing" is absolutely so important and it's not just "good enough" to write code and call it good. All software needs to be tested (by UI people, not developers) who will find/apply these and more things a developer will never think of. The end-user will always be doing things the programmer never thinks of.

Peace-out.

[Steve Conner]

I agree, you better fix it! The firmware is field upgradeable, right?

The mechanical precision doesn't really matter, errors in the mechanism are negligible compared to the random scatter that the wire takes on by itself. The TPL figure is only meaningful as an average. I've heard people suggest that it should be "turns per traverse".

I think a dithering algorithm would be acceptable. Say the user selects 601tpl on a 6mm bobbin, but your hardware can only traverse in 0.01mm steps. You can traverse 0.01mm per revolution, but skip one out of every 600 traverses. (or should it be 601?)

If it were me I would use a DDS algorithm, they are related to the Bresenham line drawing algorithm and are great for doing things like this on a low-end processor with no floating-point math.

[-Elepro-]

the point is that in my controller you don't set tpl but pitch (as TANAC do) with 0.01mm precision (as i always said in specifications of my controller).... tpl is just an information displayed.....

i think that tpl information exists for machine-wound-vintage-pickup study and just because who unwind pickup can count tpl but not pitch..... and pitch is a more precise information and is not bobbin height dependent..... but only who have a winder with synchronized traverse can use it

....and for who hand-wind pickup is very difficult to speak about tpl too ...unless they use 100 rpm or less.....


if i will change my controller i will leave pitch selection but with more precision ..... (but i have no time at this moment for this upgrade) ....

but the question in this thread was if is common practice to use high tpl with overlapped wire .... and it was addressed to the people who can set pitch or tpl in their machine ....

thanks

[CRU JONES]

Hi Elepro,
I think it is common to put more turns on than can fit side by side. Its also useful to do the opposite.

So, lets talk about this 130TPL... Did copperheadroads give out any other tasty bits of info? Might have a go at that 130TPL tonight see if I that gets me closer

[big_teee]

Hi Elepro,
I think it is common to put more turns on than can fit side by side. Its also useful to do the opposite.

So, lets talk about this 130TPL... Did copperheadroads give out any other tasty bits of info? Might have a go at that 130TPL tonight see if I that gets me closer

That May be why Copper hasn't responded to this thread.
So much for talking to your machine manufacturer in Confidence, & Privacy!
T

[copperheadroads]

That May be why Copper hasn't responded to this thread.
So much for talking to your machine manufacturer in Confidence, & Privacy!
T

I'll survive

[copperheadroads]

Hi Elepro,
I think it is common to put more turns on than can fit side by side. Its also useful to do the opposite. It is common to exceed the max tpl & It's found in some modern made pickups
like Fenders pickups, there enough talk around here winding strat pickups between 180 & 220 tpl which also exceeds the max wind


So, lets talk about this 130TPL... Did copperheadroads give out any other tasty bits of info? Might have a go at that 130TPL tonight see if I that gets me closer

Try It ..... my Cnc winder with Elepro's controller has endless combinations of single tpl or random or an alternate which can end up with quite the variation
But winding a humbucker or humbucker sized bobbin around 130 tpl is no secret Mojo (peel an unGodly Epi pup you will find A similar TPL,I was doing some complexed wind that involved mostly lower tpl layers but wanted some high er tpl to darken the tone , which I feel 130 would be a good #(Not 150tpl or 118 tpl )