Rewinding cheap Tele neck PU

[bea]

This will be my first step from theory to actual pickup making: the guitar i am building is equipped with a cheap chinese tele neck PU (6,22 EUROs including shipping!). Not quite unexpected the sound lacks treble and strongly emphasises the mids, especially in contrast to a P90. Construction: visible from the outside is a bar magnet below the pole piece(s), probably ferrite. Which means that i expect pole pieces from simple steel inside. I did not theck the orientaton of the poles.

I plan to rewind it with really thick wire (0.2 mm) as a low impedance pickup and manipulate its resonance peak by capacitors. My main concern is the reason of that boomy sound: will that prevail after rewinding? If yes, what could/should i do about it? Adding some steel to the bottom?

Thanks

Beate

[big_teee]

This will be my first step from theory to actual pickup making: the guitar i am building is equipped with a cheap chinese tele neck PU (6,22 EUROs including shipping!). Not quite unexpected the sound lacks treble and strongly emphasises the mids, especially in contrast to a P90. Construction: visible from the outside is a bar magnet below the pole piece(s), probably ferrite. Which means that i expect pole pieces from simple steel inside. I did not theck the orientaton of the poles.

I plan to rewind it with really thick wire (0.2 mm) as a low impedance pickup and manipulate its resonance peak by capacitors. My main concern is the reason of that boomy sound: will that prevail after rewinding? If yes, what could/should i do about it? Adding some steel to the bottom?

Thanks

Beate

Thought you might get some replies.
Don't Know anyone that rewinds the plastic bobbins used on strats and Teles.
The eyelets can melt the bobbin when you solder to the eyelets.
Also there is not much room on the plastic bobbin for wire.
Everyone I know uses the forbon flatwork, and rod magnets.
I just made a Tele set, the neck pickup was forbon flat work and A5 Magnets.
I put a un-plated nickel cover on it.
It was 7.5k, 8400- 8500 turns of 43 SPN.
best sounding one I've made to date.
I also make a 42SPN model.
Good Luck,
T

[copperheadroads]

ditching the ceramic magnet & poles for alnico rods along with your rewind help the tone ,Also the cover is definitely brass on that cheapie,So I recommend going with a lower vintage wind or not using the cover at all
& like T said on the plastic bobbins you have to solder very quick or the eyelets will sink in the plastic

[rjb]

I plan to rewind it with really thick wire (0.2 mm) as a low impedance pickup and manipulate its resonance peak by capacitors. My main concern is the reason of that boomy sound: will that prevail after rewinding?

My guess is:
Thick wire => few turns => low inductance => low Q => less pronounced peak at resonance frequency => "flat", "Hi-fi" freq response.

I'm basing this on my "extensive" experience of having wound one semi-low impedance pickup- an Electromuse I-Beam for lap steel- with 2300 turns of 38AWG for an Rdc of 600 ohms.

For reference,
0.2 mm ~32AWG ~26SWG
0.1 mm ~38AWG ~42SWG

[rjb]

ditching the ceramic magnet & poles for alnico rods along with your rewind help the tone...

Hey Bea,
Is your goal to sound like a classic Tele neck pickup, or to experiment with low-impedance p'ups, or ???

[David Schwab]

Hey Bea,
Is your goal to sound like a classic Tele neck pickup, or to experiment with low-impedance p'ups, or ???

I don't think he wants to sound like a Tele neck, he said:

I plan to rewind it with really thick wire (0.2 mm) as a low impedance pickup and manipulate its resonance peak by capacitors.

The stock pickup might be dark because of;

1. A brass cover
2. Weak magnet
3. The way it was wound.

And probably a combination of the above.

Keep in mind that a low impedance pickup will have likely very low output as you can't get much wire on that small bobbin.

[bea]

I don't think he wants to sound like a Tele neck, he said:

mhmm, better she

The stock pickup might be dark because of;

1. A brass cover
2. Weak magnet
3. The way it was wound.

my main concern were the overemphazised mids (similar to PUs like the "Duncan designed" Humbucker in comparison to a PAF) - these must go away.

Keep in mind that a low impedance pickup will have likely very low output as you can't get much wire on that small bobbin.

Yes, of course. A preamp is planned - i am considering a switchable capacitive load to the pickup and a PI-Tonestack with switchable capacitors to form a low Q notch filter (i.e. varitone emulation).

[big_teee]

mhmm, better she
my main concern were the overemphazised mids (similar to PUs like the "Duncan designed" Humbucker in comparison to a PAF) - these must go away.
Yes, of course. A preamp is planned - i am considering a switchable capacitive load to the pickup and a PI-Tonestack with switchable capacitors to form a low Q notch filter (i.e. varitone emulation).

The Low Z Pickup with the Preamp, and switchable Capacitive load is a more advanced Configuration.
This Thread would probably get more hits in the Regular Pickup Makers Forum.
If Bea would like, I will be glad to move it.
Terry

[bea]

Your Welcome.

[Mike Sulzer]

This will be my first step from theory to actual pickup making...

Does the construction allow the cover to be removed easily? If so, you might try the guitar with it off, if you have not done so. The worst that can happen is that you would destroy a bad pickup, and you might learn something useful. It might even sound a lot better.

Another thing to try is to figure out the approximate resonant frequency. A pickup lacks highs usually from too low a resonance. Adding 330, 560, and then maybe 1000 pf (or whatever you have) (in parallel outside the guitar with the vol and tone on 10) will make this painfully clear as the resonance moves down even more.

However, it is also possible to make a tele neck pickup lack highs from too high a resonant frequency. (no peak at the right frequency to make it bright) This is less likely, but if so, the extra C will move the resonance down, maybe to where you want it.

You can do these experiments with multiple cables connected together with barrels instead of actual Cs if you like.

[Mark Hammer]

It may well be easier, and certainly more predictable, to let the preamp do the work and not rely on rewinding the pickup to produce the largest change in resonance. You have to admit that it is easier to identify where the unwanted resonances are, and calculate the necessary filters, than it is to figure out in advance what sort of winding and number of turns will producea particular outcome.

[Mike Sulzer]

It may well be easier, and certainly more predictable, to let the preamp do the work and not rely on rewinding the pickup to produce the largest change in resonance. You have to admit that it is easier to identify where the unwanted resonances are, and calculate the necessary filters, than it is to figure out in advance what sort of winding and number of turns will producea particular outcome.

Especially if the preamp is in the guitar, eliminating the cable. Then you start out with the resonance too high, and move it down with parallel C, possibly adding R in series as well to lower the Q.

[Steve A.]

Bea:

If I ever started making pickups I don't think that I would start with a Tele neck pickup... This is a guitar that you are building- right? I think that I would just get another cheap tele neck pickup, but one that sounds good. I don't know what is available where you live but there are all sorts of low cost pickups on the internet here in the US. I think that "Garbage In Garbage Out" might apply here- if you start off with a crappy sounding pickup custom filters are probably not going to get a good authentic sound from it...

If you want to experiment with custom wiring and preamps I would recommend a guitar with a generous control cavity accessible from the back of the guitar. Not a lot of room under a tele control plate. BTW I played and customized my teles for many years before a friend told me the trick: you adjust the two controls until you get the sound that you are looking for. Setting them both to 10 can be damaging to your hearing (at least for the ones with a bright bridge pickup.)

Good luck!

Steve Ahola

[rjb]

...if you start off with a crappy sounding pickup custom filters are probably not going to get a good authentic sound from it...

I'm sure Bea can answer for herself, but I'm not sure she wants an "authentic" sound.
It seems she wants to wind a low impedance pickup because she wants to wind a low impedance pickup.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Bea,
If it is given you are going to employ a preamp, could you first try a unity-gain preamp with the unmodified pickup?
Theoretically, the buffer's high input impedance would raise the resonance frequency out of the "boomy" range and increase Q- could you then do your manipulations from there?

I guess I'm just repeating Mike S. in question format.

[David Schwab]

mhmm, better she

Oh my... need new glasses... my apologies!