As far as Noiseless goes, Whats the major prob with Dummy coils

[Possum]

SRV dummy

I read that what was used in the number one guitar was a PBass coil because they are small and could fit in the regular cavity....

You know I think you probably CAN hear the cancellation in that guitar, I make a set similar to what was in that guitar and they can be really glassy. But its also hard to tell how those pickups sound in that guitar too, since it had no freaking finish left on it, and a baseball neck with rosewood and super heavy strings, all that stuff would counteract the glassiness of the pickups. There's a good youtube video of Gene Vincent and his guitar player has a new strat with a new bassman around the time stevie's guitar was built and the guy's tone was pretty shrilll......

[pupoholic]

Great call Dave!
SRV's were all 5.7's within 60 turns frome one another ( i don't mind giving that spec.. the market is really sa-sa--sa-saturated )
and at 5.7 the glass would fluster the reverb and speaker clarity.. it would splatter the high feq, like a Lipsticky tube..

Plus SRV lowered them down pretty far away.. so the coil may just be a HuGe PaRt Of ThAt SrV ToNe ChAiN...

whos heard of the B.L. Antenna? or better yet.. has some inside dope on it?

I think I know what it is.. a little bird called me once.. but I should not Air his personal invetions secrets...

But i don't mind if somebody else does.. LOL!

I'm a little gun shy this week, done stepped on it once already this week..
I need a break.
http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/...5957544253nP1R

[Spence]

I designed a system that is built into a box so that it's remote from the guitar. It works well though it does need a little teaking before I'll be totally happy. Personally I think a remote system is the way to go. It's no different from having stomp boxes in tow and requires no guitar mods.
Meanwhile check out the Electro Harmonix Humdebugger.

[David Schwab]

.. so the coil may just be a HuGe PaRt Of ThAt SrV ToNe ChAiN...

In a Guitar Player interview he said when he records he used about 5 different amps simultaneously, and mixed the signals together.

That's got to make it hard to copy his tone!

[madialex]

I guess Don Figured it out

Here is a post from the TDPRI from one of his customers.


Don Mare - Esquire Junkie
OK where to start, Don Mare is a genius I showed up over at his house and he hand scatter wound a new pickup for my Fender Mim Classic Esquire
7.8 oms with pardon my spelling ? "fomar" wire Then he put a really rare and expensive tone cap in then he puts a new product that he's going to be offering on his web page a "Don's Dummy Coil" some thing that Don learned Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar tech but Don adds a genus twist to the install he uses a push pull pot so you can disengage the silent circuit and get true "single coil tone" for the purist Tele-holic or pull the knob and wham no 60 cycle hum

So my Esquire is so Bluesy Twangy and Alive its great and this tone cap that he puts in is so tasty it just doesnt darken the tone it sweetin's it and I can't put it into words how soul full the tone is, you'd just have to hear it for yourself to understand what Don's done for my tone

Thank You For Everything Don!!!... Dale Hamon Aka JamonHamon



I'd say he got it right... Good Job there Don.

[Mark Hammer]

As far as I understood it, one of the difficulties with dummy coils is that the overall inductance of the active+dummy combination is influenced by the dummy coil, even though there is not string signal detection in the dummy. The Suhr backplate has a very low impedance coil that, placed in series with the active coil, does not change the overall inductance all that much. Certainly not nearly as much as having a conventional pole-less pickup might. Consequently the tone is not altered very much, and certainly not enough to notice when you start to invoke distortion.

Are my inferences correct?

[pupoholic]

Here is a post from the TDPRI from one of his customers.


Don Mare - Esquire Junkie
OK where to start, Don Mare is a genius I showed up over at his house and he hand scatter wound a new pickup for my Fender Mim Classic Esquire
7.8 oms with pardon my spelling ? "fomar" wire Then he put a really rare and expensive tone cap in then he puts a new product that he's going to be offering on his web page a "Don's Dummy Coil" some thing that Don learned Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar tech but Don adds a genus twist to the install he uses a push pull pot so you can disengage the silent circuit and get true "single coil tone" for the purist Tele-holic or pull the knob and wham no 60 cycle hum

So my Esquire is so Bluesy Twangy and Alive its great and this tone cap that he puts in is so tasty it just doesnt darken the tone it sweetin's it and I can't put it into words how soul full the tone is, you'd just have to hear it for yourself to understand what Don's done for my tone

Thank You For Everything Don!!!... Dale Hamon Aka JamonHamon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"I'd say he got it right... Good Job there Don.",madialex

Sorry to ruffle your tail feathers for the 2nd. time this week there, Madialex while your checking up on the latest dope on (ME) The Ol' Gray MARE"..
But... guess what....

False Alarm,

Theres no need to light another fire (#2) this week under my butt here, my friend.. LOL!
THE TDPRI THREAD WAS INTITLED "Don Mare ~ESQUIRE JUNKIE"

"NOT DON MARE~ Dummy Coil"..etc..

That was just a gift "dummy-C" to that customer to try-out or test.., it still lost glass, top spark, & Volume.....

i'm going to try to do the low henry thing next and see BECAUSE I've been reading and was told on the phone that the low henery thing is the way.. IF You can figure out just how- if at all that it can be done,, Black Iron Core sounds like the thing to test next..,

at the tDP --- I do not know why the customer named it after me???...etc?? , or made it out like a new product??? other then guys like to think they help us? he called me and asked if he should edit it.. I said no.. because then guys wonder what was first said.. I reminded him its still in R&D ... and if anyone cared enough to reply he should then mention what he left out.. or say what he wanted to edit...etc.. I do not ever want to dictate whats being said by my customers.. even if they get it cross-wired..etc.

basicially I have gave out dummy coils free to those willing to try it this week.... i explain they're never finished... and that r&d will be a long road-- if ever.. these guys are willing to suffer some tone loss anyways, and also they install an on-off switch for the Dummy.. not a bad way to go incase you really need hum cancled.


btw.. is not tdpri & Fdp threads copyrighted or protected some-how -- ( i don't really know) ? and not suppose to be pasted in other forums?, i thought they sicked the lawyers on -the-fender-forum- for stuff like that once, along with bashing the owners of the other forums???

found this:
( Copyright © 1999-2007 Fender Discussion Page, LLC All Rights Reserved )

[madialex]

Whoa there Don, chill......

No Feathers ruffled, just saying good job. It looks as if you figured it out is all I said. Wasn't that what this thread was all about?

And Paul doesnt like me anyway, so......... I try to stay away from over there. They get a little too deep for me. I have never really been a tele guy and dont really know a good sounding one from a bad for that matter. Not trying to take any tele biz away thats for sure. I am going to be taking them off my site soon anyway. I wind test ones just to mess with but dont know what to listen for, now singles for strats and P90's thats my thing.

Sorry to ruffle your tail feathers for the 2nd. time this week there, Madialex while your checking up on the latest dope on (ME) The Ol' Gray MARE"..
But... guess what....

False Alarm,

Theres no need to light another fire (#2) this week under my butt here, my friend.. LOL!
THE TDPRI THREAD WAS INTITLED "Don Mare ~ESQUIRE JUNKIE"

"NOT DON MARE~ Dummy Coil"..etc..

That was just a gift "dummy-C" to that customer to try-out or test.., it still lost glass, top spark, & Volume.....

i'm going to try to do the low henry thing next and see BECAUSE I've been reading and was told on the phone that the low henery thing is the way.. IF You can figure out just how- if at all that it can be done,, Black Iron Core sounds like the thing to test next..,

at the tDP --- I do not know why the customer named it after me???...etc?? , or made it out like a new product??? other then guys like to think they help us? he called me and asked if he should edit it.. I said no.. because then guys wonder what was first said.. I reminded him its still in R&D ... and if anyone cared enough to reply he should then mention what he left out.. or say what he wanted to edit...etc.. I do not ever want to dictate whats being said by my customers.. even if they get it cross-wired..etc.

basicially I have gave out dummy coils free to those willing to try it this week.... i explain they're never finished... and that r&d will be a long road-- if ever.. these guys are willing to suffer some tone loss anyways, and also they install an on-off switch for the Dummy.. not a bad way to go incase you really need hum cancled.


btw.. is not tdpri & Fdp threads copyrighted or protected some-how -- ( i don't really know) ? and not suppose to be pasted in other forums?, i thought they sicked the lawyers on -the-fender-forum- for stuff like that once, along with bashing the owners of the other forums???

found this:
( Copyright © 1999-2007 Fender Discussion Page, LLC All Rights Reserved )

[Possum]

SRV

I wonder if the 5.7K spec is correct. I think it might not be. the reason is I have a guitar magazine from the UK that had a few more details in it on Number One's autopsy than what was reported in the US. Most notably it says Fender noted that the "neck pickup was the hottest and the other two were weak." At the time I thought this was a little weird, but then I found a very few strat pickup sets from '59 on Ebay and the neck pickups were 5.9K and the other two a bit under that. Then I had a customer contact me who has a '59 strat and same specs virtually. Plus he had one rewound by Fralin (which sounded bad afterwards...) so he sent me a sample of the magnet wire. So with all that info I made my Fifty Nine set and changed a few things around for modern players. Yeah those pickups are beautifully chimey and the bridge can be pretty bright, but when you dig into them they get fat sounding. With his virtually unfinished guitar it tames that brightness enough, plus if that dummy coil was in there it surely would help. I have heard one clip where his bridge was on full and it was sounding fairly screechy. So it could have been all 5.7's there were certainly in that range. I have seen other examples from years near that and the necks all were the hottest ones, I wonder if that was on purpose?

[pupoholic]

Ahh. thanks Dave and Madialex for talkin with me here -- I don't desirve it I - Know I know... I freaked out on Dave over Tele pups once and I should not have bothered him.. at all.. everyone has a right to produce what they please.

"And Paul doesnt like me anyway"

Paul who?

No congrats desirved on my end about dummy-coils. at all.. this is all somebody else hard thinking and test.. I was reading those two guys in that link I posted 2 replys back.. My God -- theres your genuis types.. they almost cracked a forumla and a core to get it all done.. with no audible loss, but it seems to just escape getting dialed in each attempt.... here it is,, great read_- It came up on Google under a "Dummy Coil search" itys an old thread here somewhere.

Dave: I spoke with a guy today who did 46 tour dates opening with SRV..
he said that the TS-808 was always stepped on.. that he depended on it to fatten the tone.. then there was two Marshalls and a Vibroking and SO loUd That people walked out by the hords back before he was big,, so I'm not Sure Rene was the Tech way back then, but I'll ask next week..

Ol Gray Mare

[Spence]

I wonder if the 5.7K spec is correct. I think it might not be. the reason is I have a guitar magazine from the UK that had a few more details in it on Number One's autopsy than what was reported in the US. Most notably it says Fender noted that the "neck pickup was the hottest and the other two were weak." At the time I thought this was a little weird, but then I found a very few strat pickup sets from '59 on Ebay and the neck pickups were 5.9K and the other two a bit under that. Then I had a customer contact me who has a '59 strat and same specs virtually. Plus he had one rewound by Fralin (which sounded bad afterwards...) so he sent me a sample of the magnet wire. So with all that info I made my Fifty Nine set and changed a few things around for modern players. Yeah those pickups are beautifully chimey and the bridge can be pretty bright, but when you dig into them they get fat sounding. With his virtually unfinished guitar it tames that brightness enough, plus if that dummy coil was in there it surely would help. I have heard one clip where his bridge was on full and it was sounding fairly screechy. So it could have been all 5.7's there were certainly in that range. I have seen other examples from years near that and the necks all were the hottest ones, I wonder if that was on purpose?

Quite a few strats from that era had hotter pickups in the neck. but I'm talking hotter in terms of DCR. there's no evidence to suggest they were all like that but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that fender knew they had problems with bridge pickups sounding too weak compared to the neck and middle. Analysis of the magnets quite often throws up A3 in neck and middle with A5 in the bridge. Also, you'll remember I did a strat shootout for a magazine using a '57, a '59 two 62's and a 63.
The most original, the '57 had all A5 magnets and the pickups were all very similar in readings.
We must also remember that the strat was supposed to be a replacement for the tele and Fender were tring to make it sound like a tele for their faithful customers. Some of them even had steel baseplates on all three pickups.

My personal view on SRV's No. 1 guitar is that it was a pretty stock Fender for the era. It may well be true that each coil was shielded and that there was a dummy coil in there somewhere but I also feel that Rene Martinez was quite eager to boost his own stock value by making the whole thing a mystery.

[GlennW]

One of the best things I ever did to a Tele was to put a DeArmond silver foil by the neck. It works well with the bridge pickup too.