Bass pickup arrangements or layouts: What has given you the most success?

[shawnl]

This may yield some subjective answers but I'm curious to hear some other builders' views. Now that I have the ability to build my own pickups, I believe the next consideration is where to use them and how to fine tune the design based on what position they will be used in. I'm currently designing a fretless bass and trying to find the best pickup arrangement to enhance the character but still keep some versatility and have some punch when needed.

Ideally, I'm considering the traditional P-bass layout (hum bucker for the neck position, single coil for the bridge). However, I'm curious about alternate arrangements. What if those positions are switched? I know Musicman Stingrays use a hum bucker in the bridge position and are renown for their punch. I'm not totally sure if this is more because of the type of pickup or the position. Should the standard in determining the pickup layout be based on enhancing the signals produced at each of the different regions of the strings or balancing out the differences? For instance, if I was going to chose a pickup for the neck position would I want something higher wound to amplify the bass response or counteract the signal with something brighter and lower output? I know this is subjective in terms of what kind of sound is preferred but I'd like to get a sense of the standard practice.

[Mike Sulzer]

I'm currently designing a fretless bass and trying to find the best pickup arrangement to enhance the character but still keep some versatility and have some punch when needed.

First you have to decide on the overall sound you want from the instrument. For example, should it be limited in frequency response like many traditional basses, or wider in band width?

[shawnl]

Well since I'm hoping to get more versatility, I would think going for a slightly wider band width might be beneficial.

[David Schwab]

There's nothing wrong with using the traditional pickups if that's the tone you want. But keep in mind that with a P/J setup the P always overpowers the J. And the J hums. Some people don't care about hum, and some do.

On the basses I built I used soapbar pickups. My feeling was they fit the looks of the basses better, since they weren't Fender copies, and I had more room to try different ideas.

I currently make several different types of pickups, including humbuckers (but not like Musician Man humbuckers), sidewinders, split coils and even single coil Fender style pickups.

Musicman pickups are lower in impedance than something like a P bass, and they are paired up with an onboard preamp.

[shawnl]

There's nothing wrong with using the traditional pickups if that's the tone you want. But keep in mind that with a P/J setup the P always overpowers the J. And the J hums. Some people don't care about hum, and some do.

Yeah this is what I thought would happen if I used a humbucker in the neck position. I'm torn though because I really like the punch of a single coil but can't deny the success a lot of people have had with the P/J arrangement. I know I really like my wife's vintage P-bass. It uses only one single coil pickup and still sounds amazing. I've never heard much of a hum coming from that so seems to be something I have a high tolerance for.

On the basses I built I used soapbar pickups. My feeling was they fit the looks of the basses better, since they weren't Fender copies, and I had more room to try different ideas.

If I end up using a humbucker for the neck, it's going to be a twin blade style. I personally never liked the look of the split pickup. It just doesn't fit in with my aesthetic style.

Musicman pickups are lower in impedance than something like a P bass, and they are paired up with an onboard preamp.

Actually, the Stingray my wife plays is entirely passive.

[David Schwab]

Yeah this is what I thought would happen if I used a humbucker in the neck position. I'm torn though because I really like the punch of a single coil but can't deny the success a lot of people have had with the P/J arrangement. I know I really like my wife's vintage P-bass. It uses only one single coil pickup and still sounds amazing. I've never heard much of a hum coming from that so seems to be something I have a high tolerance for.

There is something to be said for a P bass. Personally I feel the pickup needs to be reversed. They sound more even that way.

But humbucker just means it doesn't hum. It's not a tone. A P bass' slit coil is functionally the same as a single coil, but it's not wound that way. If you don't overwind a neck humbucker they can sound nice and clear. Warm but not muddy.

Most of my pickups are dual rail types.

Actually, the Stingray my wife plays is entirely passive.

Then that's not a Stingray! That preamp makes all the difference in the world. I have one in my Ibanez and I can get some cool Stringray tones.

[Mike Sulzer]

But humbucker just means it doesn't hum. It's not a tone.

If it is a traditional two coil humbucker where both coils extend under all strings it certainly is a tone. The traditional humbucker suppresses very high string harmonics (more so in the lower strings) and is to be avoided in a bass if you want to keep the extended response sound. This is the reason why I asked above about the intended sound.

[shawnl]

David, I should probably add that my wife's stingray is a Musicman Stingray Subbass and not the Stingray classic you're probably referring to. It still sounds way punchier than of the other passive basses we play in our household. Also I see where you are going with this. I think maybe I could keep the classic P/J but use a brighter sounding humbucker for the neck and maybe a slightly overwound/hotter single coil for the bridge.

In terms of what Mike said, I was wondering about that myself. I had been under the impression that humbuckers naturally sound warmer. However, I'm still trying to understand the split-coil humbucker vs dual coil humbucker thing. How does a split coil act like a single coil if there are two separate coils wired in a series still creating a hum-canceling effect? Is it because split coils have smaller individual coils that when added together in a series still have an output more comparable to a single coil?

[Mike Sulzer]

However, I'm still trying to understand the split-coil humbucker vs dual coil humbucker thing. How does a split coil act like a single coil if there are two separate coils wired in a series still creating a hum-canceling effect?

The split coil humbucker samples each string in one place rather than two like the traditional humbucker.

[shawnl]

Ok, I think I see this now. So dual coils sense a wider region having both a top and bottom coil sampling at the same time which would be less focused and would create a muddier sound?

[big_teee]

The split coil humbucker samples each string in one place rather than two like the traditional humbucker.

You can make a pickup like that with soapbars.
My SR300 bass has pickups like that.
It's made like a Split P-Bass Pickup inside the double soapbar.
Half of the upper portion is the two bass strings, and half of the bottom portion is the two treble strings.
On the outside it just looks like a double soapbar pickup.
T

[David King]

If you do a P in the neck position just combine it with a split J or a double J humbucker in the bridge so you don't end up with one HB and one single coil.
I have seen circuits where one side of the P gets it's polarity flipped when combined with the single coil J. I think Fender did that on some early MIM P+J basses. (I have the set in my attic somewhere with the switch).

Shawnl we sometimes call that sensed length of the string the "aperture" of the pickup. A dual coil pickup with a wider aperture isn't necessarily muddier sounding. The pickup will tend to filter out upper harmonics that are equal or shorter than the aperture which can often give you a more coherent bass.

[Mike Sulzer]

It is more accurately viewed as two separate apertures since the permanent field that magnetizes the string the falls of quickly away from right over the magnet pole (and changes direction away from what works best). The effect is much more noticeable on the lowest frequency strings since they have the highest harmonic numbers that fit within the bandwidth of the system. The harmonics that are removed mostly have to do with the initial transient, and they die out quickly. However, ear-brain being what it is, their effect lingers on in the perception of the sound.

[shawnl]

If you do a P in the neck position just combine it with a split J or a double J humbucker in the bridge so you don't end up with one HB and one single coil.
I have seen circuits where one side of the P gets it's polarity flipped when combined with the single coil J.

Does this malfunction only occur with the split p pickup or do I run this risk with any type of humbucker in the neck position when combining with a single coil bridge pickup? This kind of tampers with my plans a bit. I decided that I want to go with dual rails for the neck wound to around 8.5 to 9k and a single rail wound to 9.5 or 10k for the bridge. Because I'm looking for some variety, I really would like to avoid having to use 2 hum buckers.

[David King]

Mixing pickups is tricky. You don't want half your strings out of phase. Think it through.